"MARK" of the Beast (bring calculator)

lol Don,

My "folly" being to ask about Gods word? I suppose I am a fool to believe in Gods word then, fools for Christ, sounds good to me.

So I ask if,

A fool says in his heart, "there is no God", Yet YOU say (or rather give me verse numbers to indirectly say) I'm a "fool" in implication?

Talk about an "out of context" inditement, thats ok I forgive you

Prov 10:18 He that hideth hatred [with] lying lips, and he that uttereth a slander, [is] a fool.

Have I uttereth a "slander"?

Prov 13:16 Every prudent [man] "DEALETH WITH" knowledge: but a fool layeth open [his] folly.

Why aren't "thou" dealing? (I couldn't resist that one- its a joke, no accusations I just chuckled on that one)

You don't have to be afraid of calling me a "fool"

Christ said, (Mathew 5:22) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. (But you know where I stand on that, no sending you off to the gas chamber on my end- just couldn't do it if it were there)

Paul did

But Paul said, (1Corinth 15:36)[Thou] FOOL, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Just joking with you, relax will you?

In Him Kim

 

Eaglelives,
you ripped that one out of context, try given the verses a stab in the dark yourself, Go ahead! Its much easier to rip apart someone else bringing these things to the forefront then actually tackling them yourself.

So what does God mean in these verses to YOU.... Curious

In Him Kim

 

Very bad, Star.

I asked you straight up what I meant; I tend to do that, because on the internet, you can't hear people's tones, and you can't see their faces. I never intended to call you a fool, only meant to gain your understanding of a (possibly) hard passage of scripture to understand--or help you gain an understanding of it.

So I ask again: Do Proverbs 26:4 and 5 contradict each other? If they do, or do not, please explain how. As I mentioned, if you're unable to reconcile the supposed contradiction, I can.

----------------------------------------------

Which is a blatant ignoring of the greek word behind "fornication," which I believe I previously mentioned was the word for illicit sexual intercourse, and thus, a perversion of God's word.

However, I think I see your point, Ken: Jesus wanted to have illicit sexual intercourse with all the Jews, and all the believers.

Got it. But I think I'll disregard it as non-understanding of scripture, and poor teaching of that non-understanding.

Ken, don't worry. I'm through with you. You refuse to see the errors that perpetrate your beliefs, and thus make your conclusions suspect and invalid. You like to use the introduction, "here is wisdom"--implying that you and you alone have the in-road to truth. You and Michael should really talk to each other. In fact, I'd almost pay money to see that debate.

Here's another one for you to check out, Ken: www.shadowgov.com Just like Michael, and you, they love to take a few verses out of context, in order to justify their personal viewpoints....

 

Ken, Star,
Jesus spoke to the Pharisees in parables for a reason:
Mat.13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
---Verse 15 says about them:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
---The were dull of hearing, their heart waxed gross, their eyes were closed, their ears shut, and they refused to understand with their hearts. Therefore did Jesus speak to them in parables.
I would dare say that those who continue to speak in parables about spiritual things are in the same condition as the Pharisees. They don't understand, not because they don't have the knowledge, but because they refuse to understand.

Note that Jesus turned to his disciples and called them blessed. Why? They saw things plainly and heard them distinctly and understood them literally. Whatever parable there may have been that they did not understand, Jesus gave a very SIMPLE explanation. As a general rule He did not speak in parables to His disciples. The gospel is a simple message. The Bible has a simple message. It speaks of God's redemption for mankind through the blood of Christ. Those who complicate it are in grievous error.
DHK

 

Ken and Star have given us a great lesson on how to spot false teachings and exaggerated interpretation. They first started out using the false science of numerology. In their last Thread we learned how 6+6 can add up to anything the author of numerological interpretations wishes it to.
This, the second false science technique they use is “interpretation after the fact.” I’m not sure of the exact word that would describe its usage so I will leave it at that. I will however, offer an example of this false science of using facts to distort the truth or the true meaning of the original facts, just as I did with their numerology deception.

I begin my example with a statement as found in the Bible:

I will now use Ken’s interpretative distortion technique to twist this into meaning something entirely different, yet using only facts to do so, facts which no one can dispute.

First, in this deceptive art, one is given scripture, then parallels are drawn to build a valid but false argument.

You will notice, contained within the word mustard, is the word “star” : mu-star-d.
A mustard seed is one of the smallest seeds. It is an object that life forms can grow from.
I point your attention to the word Star found within the word mustard.
A Star is one of the largest seed like principles. It is an object that life forms can grow from.

Mustard seed sown on the ground would appear as stars that are spread through-out the heavens.
Stars, as do mustard seeds, has a limited life, one that may or may not blossom into other planets etc. From that growth more stars may be formed and the cycle continues. Much the same way a mustard seed would, some will grow some will not. From that growth more seeds are created. Each results in Planets or Plants… see the similarity in the words Planets/Plants?

Did Jesus really mean a star, we know that faith doesn’t always move mountains, but surely the faith of a star would. Jesus could have been using secret hidden language and meanings to tell us about the true nature of faith. It is the meat Paul spoke of, we Meat Eaters of the Bible really know the true meaning of the term mustard. Some of you may try to defeat this by claiming that the NT was written in another language other than English and the term mustard would not contain the word Star, but you must agree that since God knew the interpretation would eventually convert to English, it was another hidden secret not before known. See how Great God is.

One last stretch, most interpreters of secret meanings of the Bible, like for the Bible to point to them personally to show authentication, Star happens to be the moniker Kim has chosen, therefore Star’s newfound “Faith” could be a further link that this must all be true. Star seems to be John the Baptist and Ken is Christ.

And now back to reality. Ken and Star… please stop your twisting and using verses out of context. We already know you can make the Bible say anything, once you ordain yourselves to provide the sole interpretation of God’s word using secret meanings and understandings. Be careful of what you are teaching, the Bible speaks of very strong punishments for those who lead the innocent astray.

[ April 23, 2002, 02:50 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

Here it is 10 minutes later and I can continue to build on my false interpretations of Mustard Seed.

Mus-tard:
Mus is close to the word Muse which is the spirit within us for creativity, and is needed with "Faith".

See-d: One must "See" what one wishes to move with his faith in his mind. OHHHHHH secret instructions on using Faith the size of a Mustard Seed.

One more connection on the "Star" word. Planets are created in connection with Stars. And what is the most obvious sign on a living planet? MOUNTAINS (which are moved with mustard seed size faith)
OHHHHHHHH more secret connections.

Given time, anyone, including Ken can create a whole new cult belief based on secret meanings and twisted understandings of just a few words from the Bible.

[ April 23, 2002, 03:08 AM: Message edited by: post-it ]

 

Don,

We are NOT saying Christ wants to have sexual relations with anyone your twisting and misrepresenting what we are saying.

For example, look at the word "Hail" one is meant as a "greeting" the other in Revelation means (ice stones) though the definition means "ice stones" literally spiritually we ourselves can be "cold stones" (cold to Christ) I'm not ignoring the concrete definition just seeing that which is taken literal and seeing it in a spiritual light.

"Coals of fire" are not barbeque brisquets nor is "hail" literal "ice balls" these are spiritual truths. Your distorting what I'm saying and what Ken is saying by making the meanings we are sharing concrete in definition, so your making them say what we are NOT saying.

In Him Kim

[ April 23, 2002, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

P.S Don, you got me beat on the "fool" part because I don't consider any man a fool its not something I put myself above. I see God as one who is above this and His Rod driving these things far from us. Christ Himself received the rod. We also in Christ receive the rod of correction that we might be partakers of His divine nature.

Job 9:34 Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me:

Prov 13:24 He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.

Psalm 89:32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

By whose stripes are we healed?

Jerm 48:17 All ye that are about him, bemoan him; and all ye that know his name, say, How is the strong staff BROKEN, [and] the BEAUTIFUL ROD!

WHAT WAS HIS NAME?

Lam 3:1 I [am] THE MAN [that] hath seen affliction by the rod of his wrath.

Who was THIS MAN?

2Sam 7:14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

Mic 5:1 Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall SMITE the JUDGE OF ISREAL with a rod upon the cheek.

Smite the Shepherd!

Ezek 21:13 Because [it is] a trial, and what if [the sword] CONDEMN EVEN THE ROD? it shall be no [more], saith the Lord GOD.

Mic 6:9 The LORD'S voice crieth unto the city, and [the man of] wisdom shall see thy name: HEAR YE THE ROD, and who hath appointed it.

Mic 7:14 FEED thy people with thy Rod...

Prov 22:13 Foolishness [is] bound in the heart of a child; [but] the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.

I don't need to put myself above being a fool, neither do I consider myself wise, but I trust in a good God and my lifes in His hands. So if you think I think I'm wise in my own conceit your sadly mistaken. If I trusted God to lead me into truth and He hasn't then I stand as one decieved. If I am decieved the Lord said He deceives as well. The decieved and deciever are His. You see I'm not afraid of being called "false" or whatever you chose to call me, be it a fool or whatever you'd like. I know my heart seeks His face, I know how I mean what I see as grossly distorted as they become to others. God knows. I know my redeemer lives and I stand by faith purchased with His blood and sanctified by His Holy Spirit. He is very capable of keeping that which I entrusted Him with. I don't need to see as others see on all things. I don't need to ask, "What do the teachers of the law say about Him"... It doesn't matter what "they say" concerning Him its what I say according to the light revealed to me, and according to the measure of faith measured to me, according to how I read the scriptures and how these things read to me, God is certainly able to show me my error or lead me where I must be. I'm fully confident in Him not in myself.

How I read scripture is how I read it simply put, do I understand in full? Absolutely not, no one does we will be learning into all eternity and anyone who thinks they have God in their back pocket in a neatly wrapped theologocal box is lying, his judgements are unsearchable. BUT you can have the love that surpasses all these things, knowledge, faith, knowing of mysteries etc. and find the most excellent way. So I judge no man according to His knowledge because we all know in part, its the seeking to understand (calling out for understanding) that is admonished. To me walking in error is not walking in love, thats the command, being brought to completness in Christ is walking in the love that surpasses everything else. Truth is a PERSON to walk in Him is to walk in love. So I do not believe in a "form" of Godliness denying the "power" thereof but I refuse to put on someone imperfect in knowledge that their fate is challenged and if their "fate" is challenged thats in Gods hands not mine (I'm using the arguments presented here). The foundation is Jesus Christ, the simplicity of the gospel is the same, if you think theres simplicity in the book of revelation you browse the topics on this board (all within the same faith) the questions and differences are endless not to mention those differences in other faiths (as how they are considered as far as it goes denominationally) holding to the faith of Christ.

So despite the treatment here, I will never judge you or your faith or your knowledge, these we have before God. To Judge you would be to judge the law and I would not be keeping it by do so. I cannot judge your faith because it was measured to you by God, or your knowledge because we all understand in part and even knowledge passeth away but that which is perfect (perfect love) comes remains. Its futile to argue or cast judgements in my eyes. What I see is precious to me it may not be to you and thats ok, I don't need a tribal amen on something I see personally.

In Him Kim

 

Well, post-it, at least I can follow your train of thought and logical sequence.

When I try to focus on what Ken and Star are saying, it ends up like spaghetti to me. Maybe it's because I usually deal in facts?

Post-it, could you please elaborate on how we use mustard as a condiment and the possible "spiritual" connotations? And could this have anything to do with a non-kosher item like a ham sandwich?

No doubt you can provide excellent Bible verses to prove your point, just like Ken does!

Hope there aren't people seeking truth on this board who run across these blasphemous threads! It would be enough to drive some people away from God for good, IMHO.

 

Condiments? That would be the simlitude of "Spices" and yes, there is a connection directly to Jesus in the following verses. I will let Ken and Star show us the ham sandwich connection. Ken seems to have the hamming down to an art and Star completes the cult sandwich they profess.

Luke 24:1
On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb.
Mark 16:1
When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus' body.

 

Star, get over it. I'm not calling you a fool, nor intending to call you wise in your own deceit. Those were the furthest things from my mind, and I've already said that once. If you wish to call me a liar, then please call me one straight out.

The question was, and still is: Can you reconcile the supposed contradiction between the two verses? (Proverbs 26:4-5) The answer is either yes or no, and an explanation as to why you arrived at that answer.

If you can't reconcile it, I'll be happy to provide the reconciliation for you.

But please, STOP reading more into those two verses than I originally intended. I arbitrarily picked those two, and had nothing personal about you in mind when I did. So either answer the question, or tell me you refuse to.

 

I already gave you that answer Don, I told you you have me beat. No I cannot give the interpretation I'm being honest if I could I would be guessing, I haven't done the study on the "fools folly" or answering one or when not to answer. Not every interpretation is known to me, if you feel the need to expound go ahead if not thats fine too, whatever you want, go for the gusto!

Will you then expound on the verses posted on Tyre as you see them? I'm curious, and I asked you first or will you tie that in to the not answering the fool or answering one?

In Him Kim

 

Now Post it... the stars are to give light,

Psalm 147:4 He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by [their] names.

The Stars were made the "forth day" (seated in the heavens) So also did He go to Lazarus calling Him forth from the grave, as He called Lazarus by name he calls the stars by name, ressurected and seated in heavenly places. Why should God bother to write the days down unless you could see beautiful spiritual truths in them?

BUT in Gen 22:17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the SAND WHICH [is] upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;

theres your SAND WHICH Get it before it gets soggy on the Sea unless the Sea is not really water depending on your interpretation.

So in your opinion the scriptures cannot define themselves or did God leave that up to you decide and mock? Cute real cute lol!

In Him Kim

[ April 23, 2002, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Star ]

 

Post it,

Another question, how has Ken or myself used YOUR method of whatever you call it to show anything in scripture? Not once have I taken a word and implied its use the way you have not once.

You say, we have used a "false" science, and how do you determine whats false? The numbers are useless outside of Christ, Paul even spoke of the spiritual meaning of the "Seventh day" He attributed to it that God rested on that day and draws on where the the Isrealites were not able to enter that rest. So where do you see numbers not relevant in expressing spiritual truths? Paul does it, Revelation says calculate, you mock that? So I see Paul seeing a spiritual truth in the Seventh day and I understand what he means by it. At every point I have tested Paul with one exception I'm still looking into I found Paul true. Paul did not "expound" on everything he gave hints and following them through I'm seeing that Paul is truthful. How can that be cultic to dive into the scriptures seeking to understand the mysteries in Christ? They obviosly speak of Him, I still believe in salvation through the work of Christ on the cross, I'm not out claiming circumcision or drawing followers after myself. If I feel God has inclined me to look into these things and am coming up blessed in seeing Christ how is that error when He Himself is the Truth? If I'm seeing Him and the scriptures testifying of Him how is that wrong in your eyes? This I would love to know. If the goal of our faith is to grow in the faith and knowledge of God in Christ and walk in love I would really like to see the error from your point of view. You throw up numbers mocking that have no relation whatsoever to how I see Christ in the scriptures, and have ofcourse have an audience cheering you on applauding the obvious mockery- which I don't really mind, I can laugh at the mocking it makes no real difference to me, but still no one refutes using scripture. You might laugh at what I draw from my study in the word but you have not in a godly fashion moved along the lines of in a spirit of gentleness nor honored the Lord by use of His words, see what I'm getting at? I'm not judging you but your finding fault, if I'm in error "THE TRUTH" (as you understand it) should sets me free, try using it once and awhile. It might come in handy perhaps bless the hearers, turn me from my foolishness as you call it and we could really have some fruitful beneficial discussion.

In Him Kim

 

Sorry Ken no dip for me, I gave my SAND WHICH to "Post it" I'll simply "fast" this one out

I never saw the Faith similitude in connection to the mountain before, I personally think that ones awesome, thanks for including that one!

In Him Kim

 

POST-IT!!

>>From that growth more seeds are created. Each results in Planets or Plants… see the similarity in the words Planets/Plants?>>

I think you are really on to something here! How about the word "star" also having the meaning of a famous person, like a movie star.

Planet Hollywood and the stars, think about it!

AWESOME!

HankD

 

Star, if you're not actually able to reconcile the two verses--i.e., show that they're not contradicting each other--then I humbly submit that you're paying waaaaaay too much attention to similitudes, and not enough to every jot and every tittle.

Tyre? Thrown down. Doesn't exist any more (the part that's mentioned in the bible, not the area that it's frequently mistaken for these days by those that simply want to trash the scriptures). Why would it be holiness? Because it's tribute to God's power of doing what He says He will do if His children don't repent. Tyre, oppressing the children of God, then becomes good to the children of God, because there's nothing left of it, and the people of Tyre are no longer--in effect--spitting in God's eye.

That's the short version.

 

For those that didn't catch this:

Yep; that's why there are at least three different Greek words for love, one of them being "agape"--the type of love Jesus exhibits to and for all of us.

However, when we use a passage that explicitly uses the word "porneia," which means "illicit sexual intercourse," and give it the same meaning as "agape"--well, that's known as twisting scripture, which is loathsome and disgusting.

 

Don,

That neither answers the question Tyre returned to her hire both her hire and merchandise are considered as Holiness, am I advocating fornication? No way but I believe this can be spiritual and think Ken makes a beautiful point with it as seen in Christ.

So Gods Rod is cast down and becomes a Serpent, does that have the same implication? I agree God was showing His power

You didn't quote Ken correctly you took it out of context as to what He was implying, let me quote it so others can see how He meant it.

However the meaning I was implying was Jesus cares, has redeemed, and has taken the sin of all mankind. Out of Love.

You see what you want to see also, correctly quote the person in the way he "means" something.

In Him Kim