The Forgiveness of Sin

When I was saved some many years ago, I was taught that Gods Gift of Salvation and the forgiveness of my sins was free for the asking.

But is the gift free? Jesus paid the ultimate price of degradation, extreme physical abuse, torture, He bore every humiliation, sin, grief and afirmity and suffered death on a cross - He defeated death snatched the keys to Hades and returned from death to spend time with His disciples and to give them instruction (marching orders). He ascended into heaven where He is seated at the right hand of the Father until that appointed time for His return.

His price was dear, He paid the ultimate price. I believe that His Gift of Salvation is free to anyone who would believe, and accept Him as Lord of thier life and personal Saviour.

But the Forgiveness of our sins! In the Bible we are taught that the forgiveness of sin has a price.

Mark 11:25 - 26 /(25) And when ye stand praying,forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive your tresspases. (26) But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Jesus was willing to take on our sins and transgressions, to forgive us. And it is our obligation to be of a forgiving spirit towards others.

The price we pay for the forgiveness of our sins is our willingness to forgive others. Jesus said if we are unwilling to forgive others than our Father in heaven will not forgive us!

What is your take on this, and why is this not taught in churches today?

The payment for our sins was the blood that Jesus shed. He was the sacrificial passover lamb. Christians should not think, however, that they just keep on sinning and still be saved. You must repent, and turn your life around and then you are forgiven. It says many times in the New Testament that you must forgive others!! I don't have any exact scripture at this point, but that point is made abundately clear on more than one occasion!! I have noticed that people nowadays want to be forgiven, but don't want to forgive. That is a mistake, and it must be remedied.

Welcome to the board, Christine! I used to live in Lancaster -- before it was a suburb of LA!

David, you have some good points.

First of all, though, atonement and forgiveness are two separate things. That is why ALL our sins are atoned for but, nevertheless, there is one that can't be forgiven.

Atonement is what Jesus did on the cross. The wages of sin were paid in full for all time and all sin -- Hebrews. All sin is an insult to God and no insults to Him are left standing for eternity.

And you are right. The price paid for that atonement, or wages received -- however you think of it -- was/were enormous and past our comprehension. But, for us, because of God's love and mercy, when He satisfied His own justice, the result was freedom for us to be able to be born again if we accepted that gift. We pay nothing for that gift; it is ours to accept or reject.

Forgiveness is a personal thing and also not a one-time thing. That is why "forgive our our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us." We have to empty our own hearts of the bitterness of grudges before our hearts have the room to receive God's forgiveness for our sins. The forgiveness is there and waiting for us, but it is not completed until received. That is why we must confess our sins -- or at least the ones we are aware of -- and ask for forgiveness. Then 'he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins.' The ones we are not aware of? Jesus died for those, too, and if we need to be reminded of them for any reason, the Holy Spirit is faithful to do so.

I have been to churches where this is taught (and encouraged).

Christine, we cannot turn our lives around on our own. We can only repent and ask for forgiveness. It is the Holy Spirit, through the new birth, who turns our lives around. We cannot get right with God in order to be born again! That would be like trying to take a sponge bath before you get in the shower! Not only a waste of time but, in the case of turning one's life around, impossible.

You are absolutely right that the blood of Jesus was the payment for our sins.

The scripture Im speaking about is Mark chapter 11 verses 25 & 26 which instructs us that if we want the forgiveness of the Father we must be willing to forgive others.

My question is this - Why is the forgiveness of others not stressed more in the local church? And when we disciple new Christians. Granted most people will say "I forgive you" but will hold on to a grudge or refuse to forget the trangression.

True forgiveness is when we let go, grant a pardon for whatever sin was committed against us and forget the transgression. Why do we not teach in Sunday school that we as Christians are called to forgive with the same Grace that Christ showed us?

Helen I must say that I like that analogy "Take a Sponge Bath before you get in the shower". Thats good!

And you are right, Atonement is one thing and forgiveness another. I just feel that forgiveness needs to be stressed more in the local church.

It is true we cannot and should not turn our lives around without Christ. I should have said that.
Thanks for the welcome.
Forgiveness is not the same as sudden trust. For example, if your friend betrays you and then later is sorry for it, then you should forgive it, but at the same time, you will not have the same trust in that friend as before until it is earned back. For God, who is able to read our minds and our heart, he can give us "sudden trust" but humans can't. That is not to mean that you should keep throwing the sin in the friends face. I think with Jesus help, anything is possible. (within reason)
God Bless and Keep You.

Originally posted by David Singleton:
When I was saved some many years ago, I was taught that Gods Gift of Salvation and the forgiveness of my sins was free for the asking.

But is the gift free? Jesus paid the ultimate price of degradation, extreme physical abuse, torture, He bore every humiliation, sin, grief and afirmity and suffered death on a cross - He defeated death snatched the keys to Hades and returned from death to spend time with His disciples and to give them instruction (marching orders). He ascended into heaven where He is seated at the right hand of the Father until that appointed time for His return.

His price was dear, He paid the ultimate price. I believe that His Gift of Salvation is free to anyone who would believe, and accept Him as Lord of thier life and personal Saviour.

But the Forgiveness of our sins! In the Bible we are taught that the forgiveness of sin has a price.

Mark 11:25 - 26 /(25) And when ye stand praying,forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive your tresspases. (26) But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Jesus was willing to take on our sins and transgressions, to forgive us. And it is our obligation to be of a forgiving spirit towards others.

The price we pay for the forgiveness of our sins is our willingness to forgive others. Jesus said if we are unwilling to forgive others than our Father in heaven will not forgive us!

What is your take on this, and why is this not taught in churches today?

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You were taught correctly that your sins are forgiven. From scripture we know that He paid the price, and our salvation “today” is free to each individual that believes on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. All our sins are forgiven through the blood of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:4-9, ”But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5. Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6. And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
7. That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9. Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

It is so very easy for us to cross the line and misapply scripture. Please notice your quote in Mark is while Jesus is on earth. Jesus lived under the Law of Moses and today we are not under the law of ordinances of the “covenant” people. Please notice that Jesus Christ is not mentioned in that salvation. It is byfaith that the Jew came to the Father. The Father required His people to do something for the remission of their sins. They could not come as we today through faith, for the Bridegroom was with them. He had not yet offered His blood for those of His flock that He had come for.

This is the reason they were to say the Lord’s Prayer, “Our Father which art in Heaven………” This is why in the “kingdom of heaven is at hand” gospel of John the Baptist was preached of “repent and be baptized for the remission of their sins”.

Once we believe we must do a work, or have an obligation to do something, we only put ourselves under the law and are then obliged to keep the law. When we do this our salvation is no longer by grace but of ourselves. It was necessary for the Jew of that day to obey what their God, the Father required under covenant He made with them.

Christian faith, ituttut

Christians should not think, however, that they just keep on sinning and still be saved.

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So, what's the magic line of sinning above which you're still saved and below which you've lost your salvation?

If a person is truly saved, he will turn from his sins. Even if a person is saved, he will sin and of course still be saved. I don't believe that a person can lose their salvation once they have it.
Sometimes I am not clear in what I say, so I apologize. What I meant is that a person must repent and accept Christ in order to be saved. Sorry for the confusion.

Originally posted by ChristineES:
If a person is truly saved, he will turn from his sins. Even if a person is saved, he will sin and of course still be saved. I don't believe that a person can lose their salvation once they have it.
Sometimes I am not clear in what I say, so I apologize. What I meant is that a person must repent and accept Christ in order to be saved. Sorry for the confusion.

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Hello ChristineES. I notice you say repent and accept as steps to salvation. Can our repentance move us into a position to accept Christ?

Christian faith, ituttut

Originally posted by David Singleton:
My question is this - Why is the forgiveness of others not stressed more in the local church? And when we disciple new Christians. Granted most people will say "I forgive you" but will hold on to a grudge or refuse to forget the trangression.

True forgiveness is when we let go, grant a pardon for whatever sin was committed against us and forget the transgression. Why do we not teach in Sunday school that we as Christians are called to forgive with the same Grace that Christ showed us?

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I respectfully disagree with your definition of forgiveness. God can forgive and forget. We can decide to forgive, but we can't wilfully forget. We don't have erasers in our brains. We have memories.

We may also have continued concerns that may be justified.

Here are some things that foregiveness is not:

1. Justifying or rationalizing away what the person did

2. Pretending that what the person did wasn't wrong

3. Living as if nothing ever happened

4. Something you can wilfully forget

There are lots of qualifications and exceptions. For example, we may think we have to forgive someone when all they really did was offend our ego or flesh. In this case, we're the ones who should seek forgiveness.

Someone may truly repent. If this is the case, then you can at least decide (attempt) to go on as if nothing ever happened.

Someone may say "I'm sorry" but you know they don't think they did anything wrong and are likely to repeat the offense. In some cases, the offense can be dangerous to you and/or your family. A repeat offense could do more harm.

IMO, then, forgiveness is a decision.

I decide to forgive someone and decide to treat them as forgiven. I pray that I will not fall into bitterness over the issue.

But (as I pointed out above), if the person refuses to repent, I'm not going to put my family in harm's way because I justify what the person did, pretend that I can "forget" what this person did, and "forget" what this person is capable of doing again.

That doesn't mean I have a right to dwell on it (bitterness) or throw it in that person's face (unforgiveness). But the person is unrepentant and capable of causing more harm, so I'm going to remember and do what I have to do to keep my family out of harm's way. That doesn't mean I haven't forgiven. It just means I'm not going to delude myself into thinking the person is truly repentant when he/she is not.

I agree with most of the above. Forgiveness is first of all not holding the incident against the perpetrator. Secondly, it is an attitude within your heart which is ready to say, and mean "I forgive you" when the person says he or she is sorry to you. That part of forgiveness is a two-way street and can't be completed by one -- on either side.

In neither case does it mean you have to give a confessing and sorry thief the key to your house!

But about forgetting. I used to think I couldn't forget, but it seems God does that for us in our brains a good part of the time. Or maybe I'm just getting senile...LOL But there are a number of times when one of my sisters might say, "Remember when Mom did...." and I will say "Oh, I'd forgotten that!" The same with my ex-husband and a number of other things and people in the past. I think my memory banks can just hold so much and it is my choice what I want to stuff them with. Some things hang around for awhile, but it's really nice to let a lot of others just sort of slip into oblivion.