Mother Mary??

Frozencell,
It used to say somewhere on the board that your views will be challenged. If you can't take the heat, then stay out of the fire. Isn't it amazing that the three people you mentioned: myself, a Baptist; Bob, an SDA, and Yelsew (I'm not sure, perhaps a non-denominationalist)--three people from three entirely different backgrounds all share the same beliefs concerning the Catholic Church. That must count for something. Study the Bible, not your catechism. Look to the Lord, not your pope.
We defend what we say from the Word of God. That is the difference between you and us. Catholic doctrines (many if not most) are defenceless by the Word of God. This is the real cause of your offence.

1 Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
DHK

 

Sorry you feel that way frozencell, I have nothing against the Catholic church, I once was a candidate for "conversion" to Catholocism, studied for nearly six months until the priests could not answer my questions about "oral tradition", "eternal virginity", "Mary, the mother of the church", and about 200 more topics.

My beliefs are not "baptist" I am not a follower of John the Baptist. My beliefs are CHRISTIAN! I follow the teachings of Jesus, the Son of God, The Christ!

This BBS is a place to discuss and debate the doctrines and beliefs of "the church" regardless of which faction you may belong to. The point is if you have evidence to support your point of view offer it, and we'll try to determine it's validity based on scripture and the creation the way God made it.

What you call arrogance and smugness is only the result of your own perspective, and not a matter of truth.

 

I agree; and just for the record, I never made this assumption, if you were alluding to me.

In Christ,
Neal

 

frozencell,

I understand what you mean. I am a Baptist and some of the attitudes here greatly concern me and honestly embarrass me. DHK pointed out that the three you mentioned were united in their stand against the Catholic church, but that is about all they would be united on. I am surprised that he did not mind being mentioned with Bob, whom I would think he would consider to be part of a cult.

In Christ,
Neal

 

Oh dear, you seem to be suggesting that when Jesus rose from the dead that He left His body in the tomb.

Please, tell me that you do not think for even a moment that is a possibility that you would consider.

BTW, my original question was concerning the transfiguration. When Jesus was transfigured in the presence of two of the Apostles, did Jesus leave His fleshly body then?

I think that you may be creating a few beliefs concerning this that are not supported by Scripture.

 

trying2understand, you said,

I said,

What's so hard to understand about that?

 

Yelsew2, this is the exchange that causes me to wonder about your beliefs:

I asked you, "Did Jesus leave His body of flesh when He was transfigured on the mount?"

You answered, "Good question? I wasn't there and don't know. The evidence says that Jesus arose bodily from the grave, and that some 40 days later He ascended into heaven. In that 40 days he made appearances to his disciples and other believers, some 500 eye witnesses by most estimations. There were however periods of time when no one saw him, and he was not with his flock. So all we have to go by is what is recorded. It remains a mystery as to what form of body Jesus had when He ascended."

You seem to be considering separating the human and divine in Jesus.

 

I don't know the answer to "did he leave his flesh"? But to demonstrate who he is to his yet unconvinced disciples, it is probable that, as God, he transfigured, transsubstantiated, changed his flesh, he is afterall, God!

But I stand by my statement that human flesh does not disappear from sight to re-appear somewhere else like a closed room. EXCEPT in Star Trek movies! We do not have the power to pass through solid walls, closed doors and windows.

Unless by divine intervention our bodies cannot escape the environment of natural earth, however our spirit can and does, upon the death of the flesh.

But now back to the topic of Mother Mary????

 

You lost me, what are you talking about?

Why do you object to possibility of the Assumption of Mary into Heaven then?

No one is saying that Mary's body was assumed into Heaven by her power, but rather by divine intervention.

What exactly is your objection?

 

What is your insistance that she was assumed? What proof do you offer? You see you are the one making the claim, the burden of proof rests upon you!

 

I use the Holy Bible with Apocrypha Frozencell, so let's get it on. The fact is you offer no proof or even substantive agrument that Mary was assumed up to heaven.

There are no eye witness reports, just like there are no burial certificates or marked graves. So what proof is there? NONE! So one must assume then that Mary being 100% human dies and is buried just like all other humans. You cannot assume that Mary was lifted into heaven bodily simply because you have no eye witness reports.

You cannot say where Jesus came from when He joined the two on the road, or where He went when he disappeared from the two after breaking bread with them. You cannot say where Jesus went after the other Mary saw him in the Garden after he had arisen. You cannot say how Jesus appeared in the upper room where his disciples had gathered or where he went from there. And likewise, you cannot say that Mary was assumed into heaven!

Why can we not assume that the Apostles "were assumed" into heaven? After all, they were Jesus chosen disciples, whom he loved.

Let's see your evidence! Let's hear your testamony! Silence us with facts!

 

#1. IT is not "mentioned" by first or second century Christians.

#2. It is only "argued" from the heresy that Mary was sinless like Christ.

Since the teaching is founded on a lie - how could you expect someone who rejects the errors of the dark ages to accept it?

In Christ,

Bob

 

Is it your position that RC doctrine can only be based on RC "we say so" sources?

Are you saying that the Jewish and Protestant OT is "invalid"?

Are you saying that the NT books that I have are "translated wrong"?

For my part - when I debate with Catholics I always try to use RC authorities in my sources. I would hope that you would do the same - using my Church leader's statements when responding to me. (As well as the Bible that we both agree to)

This is the very essence of objective open exchange.

In Christ,

Bob

 

And thank you for sharing.

At any point - feel free to respond to the points made in my posts -- instead of just ranting about your feelings of superiority mixed with various states of illness.

In Christ,

Bob

 

For what it is or is not worth, I do not believe Jesus left his fleshly body on the mount of transfiguration.

I have never looked at this for purpose of study, but that is how I would answer were we in person having this discussion.

Bro. Dallas

 

Why is there a supposition that he left his mortal body?

Divinity had the power to flash through the human form at any time. It is not a function of what the human fallen form can do - it is a function of what divinity "can do".

In Christ,

Bob