Why I left the RCC

Sometimes I wonder about you guys. In all my years I never , ever, ever, ever, met a Roman Catholic ( and believe me I know quite a few up here in Catholicville) I never met a Catholic who enjoyed going to mass. They mainly do it out of duty.</font>[/QUOTE]Oh look! You just met one! Nice to mee you; my name is Grant.

 

Sometimes I wonder about you guys. In all my years I never , ever, ever, ever, met a Roman Catholic ( and believe me I know quite a few up here in Catholicville) I never met a Catholic who enjoyed going to mass. They mainly do it out of duty.</font>[/QUOTE]Pslam, who were all those people in Church with me as I attended Mass daily since age six?

Catholic Churches everywhere offer Mass each and every day and faithful Catholics are present.

Can you name even one Baptist church in your area that you can attend a service on Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday or Saturday? Now why is this?

 

Well, for one thing we don't need to go to the Church to maintain our salvation, or receive the sacrament of absolution to stay in the state of sanctifying grace.

HankD

 

Well, for one thing we don't need to go to the Church to maintain our salvation, or receive the sacrament of absolution to stay in the state of sanctifying grace.

HankD</font>[/QUOTE]I go to Church for many reasons. I go to hear the Gospel preached and expounded upon, finding new ways to apply the Gospel message to my daily life. I go to hear the forgiveness of Christ preached into my ears. I go to remembet my Baptismal promises. I enjoy finding common messages preached within the OT and NT, and how it all comes together. I enjoy singing praises and praying with my fellow Catholic Christians. I enjoy being in the physical presense of Christ Jesus, my Savior. I enjoy living out my faith. I enjoy Mass.

Is it necessary for my salvation? That's kind of a loaded statement. Christ is present in the Mass. To know he is there and to not go (for selfish reasons), it's like rejecting Christ. "I don't really need you, so I'll just not go." That's not faith; that's a lack of faith. Since I have a strong faith, I really enjoy going to Mass. So it's just a natural extension of my living faith.

I don't go out of duty; I got out of love for my God.

 

Oh, Hank, why do you twist things so?

Psalm said he knows of no Catholic who wanted to go to Mass.

When I say that I go daily because I want to, as well as others that are there with me, you presume to imply that it is because I must do so to maintain my salvation.

As a former Catholic, can you say that Catholics must go to Mass daily to maintain our salvation?

No, of course not. But you feel free to imply it though. Why is that?

 

The answer is yes. If you commit a mortal sin and don't go to confession and die that day you go to hell. So if you have adulterous thoughts daily you must go to a church, find a priest and make a confession daily if you want to daily maintain the state of sanctifying grace.

Why do Catholics imply that Baptists have an inferior spirituality to Catholics because they don't go to church daily?

Many Baptist do spiritual things daily.
What is the magic of a church environment that makes your spirituality superior to ours because you go to a church to do those things and we do them at home or in a car or wherever?

HankD

[ September 14, 2002, 07:55 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

Perhaps you need to do more research into what qualifies as a mortal sin. But that's for a whole other discussion. Most adulterous thoughts are spur of the moment, and often we are having them before we are fully aware or can correct our thoughts. A mortal sin would be, for instance, having said thoughts, realizing what you're doing, but pursuing, perhaps with lewd comments, or physical actions. You become aware of the temptation and openly pursue it, having full knowledge that what you're doing is contrary to God's will. I know that since I've been getting closer to Christ, these types of events seldom happen with me anymore. I mess up now and again, and I'm called to Confession for these things. However, I hardly commit a "mortal" sin on a regular basis. Venial sins, all the time, for we have sinful natures.

First off, not that many Catholics go to daily Mass. The average Catholic goes to Sunday Mass and that's it. Some will go to Wednesday night Mass as well (since it's an evening Mass), but morning Masses are not usually packing the church. Nor is it any Catholic's "duty" to go to daily Mass. It should be something that we desire to do.

And when did I state that I was superior to you? Rather, you are acting like you are superior to us because you're not "blind" like us Pope-respecting Catholics.

Jesus Christ is physically present, body and blood, soul and divinity, at every celebration of the Mass. That's pretty special, if you ask me.

 

Above is the post, the clear implication being that because Baptist churches do not have daily services Baptists are spiritually inferior to the Churches of Rome.

What's the implication here?

I'll illustrate it by answering in like kind.

I have His Real Presence 24/7 without the help of a Roman priest.

I went through this thread and the very first response to john3v36 post was an ad hominem attack against him later added to and embellished with sarcasm, insult and innuendo.

If you want to play this game "My God is better than your God, na-na-na-na-na-na".
Fine, I can accommodate you, but what does it get us? NOTHING and where does it lead? NOWHERE.

You have come here to a Baptist sponsored Board from a Church who in the past has persecuted those from whom we received our heritage.
Not a warm and fuzzy environment and one that wisdom would dictate to walk softly.

When I first started posting with Catholics here, I tried to be pleasant but from day one it seemed to me that a few were professional provocateurs. So, rather than perpetuate animosity I have stayed away for the most part.

I see from my latest visit that nothing has changed.

It doesn't have to be that way.

HankD

[ September 14, 2002, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: HankD ]

 

Above is the post, the clear implication being that because Baptist churches do not have daily services Baptists are spiritually inferior to the Churches of Rome.</font>[/QUOTE]You have totally taken what he said out of context. Go back and read. Psalm stated that she didn't know of a single Catholic who went to Mass for any other reason that sheer duty. In response, Trying stated that the Catholic Church has daily Mass, which in reality is typically early in the morning. It takes dedication and desire to attend these services. People who go (and people DO go, or it wouldn't be offered) obviously love going to Mass. Thus, Trying said this to show that many Catholics go to Mass for love of Christ, and was chastising him for taking the stance that BAPTISTS are better. Obviously he wouldn't have made this statement if it didn't come with the opposite "truth," that Baptists don't go to church out of duty, but rather love of Christ.

In closure, Trying was EQUATING the two. We BOTH go to church out of love for Christ. You took this so out of context it's painful.

What's the implication here?

I'll illustrate it by answering in like kind.

I have His Real Presence 24/7 without the help of a Roman priest.[/QB][/QUOTE]

Reread what I said. "Physical" presence. You may believe in a Real Presence, but I believe in a physical (body and blood, soul and divinity) presense. Jesus is physically RIGHT before me. You believe that Jesus is physically beside you in your car? Spiritually? Yes, of course. Really? Yes, of course. Physically? Do you?

Take a look at the name of this thread. "Why I left the RCC." This post was established to tear down the Catholic Church. This is NOT an ad hominem?

Secondly, Trying's post was totally legitimate. The Mass is rooted in Scripture. To claim that he never experienced the Bible is, in fact, a lie, if he attended Mass. Also, are we not responsible for reading the Bible on our own anyway? I highly doubt anyone was withholding Scripture from him.

You comdemn an ad hominem and then follow with one of your own. I'm glad that persecutions of the past now become a part of myself, and thus you gladly use them against me to make me out as the enemy. Shame on you. Shame.

Go to the index page for this section of the board. Look at who is creating the threads. It's Baptists. It's Baptists challenging Catholic doctrine. It's not Catholics challenging Baptist doctrine. And frankly, when we don't respond, we are chastised. What exactly do you want from us? You offer a lose-lose situation and still complain at me.

I'm not on the offense these days; I'm on defense.

God bless you, and I apologize if I've heart your feelings or attacked your beliefs. But honestly, look at the situation; I'm not posting these threads.

 

Why do you continue to twist?

You say yes, that Catholics must go to Mass daily to maintain salvation, but not so cleverly switch to Confession. So your witness is that Catholics must attend Mass daily to maintain salvation?

Not my implication. The question concerning Baptist lack of attendance was meant to ask Psalm, if Baptists love church so much more than Catholics, why don't they go more frequently.

[ September 14, 2002, 09:52 PM: Message edited by: trying2understand ]

 

here's one for catholic convert to chew on.
credits to Bartholomew F. Brewer, Ph.D.
Former Roman Catholic Priest

more to come....but, if y'all want to visit the site here's the link

 

None of this is new, and it's all one person or one group's interpretation of Scripture versus another group's interpretation. That doesn't get us anywhere.

 

here's the "more to come"...

 

Thanks for posting more theology that you can't put in your own words.

 

Well, I find that when discussing theology with RC's you never stick to just the Bible. You always quote your theologians and other authors and "fathers of the church".
Don't like your own medicine ?

 

Your responses only reinforce my suspicions concerning your skill at provocation.

Somehow, we the victims here at the BB of this several months assault of insult, innuendo, ridicule and contempt have now become the victimizers.

HankD

 

Well, I find that when discussing theology with RC's you never stick to just the Bible. You always quote your theologians and other authors and "fathers of the church".
Don't like your own medicine ? </font>[/QUOTE]You just posted enough content for 10 different posts. I can't respond to this without writing a book. What was the purpose?

 

Maybe that's the case. Your point? Does that somehow make you a better person? Are you justified?

 

Dear GraceSaves, why does it have to be a case of being a better person?

My point. What is your agenda? Do you really want to understand Baptists and other non-Catholics or are you here to provoke?

I understand some of the non-Catholics here are vocal and some of us even obnoxious. But you must understand that our history and heritage is one of violence at the hands of your fore-fathers.
Now the sins of the fathers can't be transfered to the children. But if the children say the same things as their fathers, well we (or I) am suspicious of the intent of said children.

It is one thing to honestly and frankly say what one believes and what offends us concerning the other. It is quite another thing to be tearing down each others character.

It doesn't have to be that way.
We both can't be right. One is right, the other wrong or we are both wrong (to one degree or another).
No matter what the case, character assasination, direct or oblique, does not keep His command "love one another".

HankD

 

Hank,

What would you have me do? No respond here anymore? When someone posts a challenge against my faith, which I see as obviously contrary, to simply ignore it? If I'm not meeting the requirements, please tell me what I should be doing differently. I see myself as defending my faith against challenges presented by other Baptists posters. I cant' remember the last time I posted a new thread as a challenge to the Baptist members.

Tell me what to do.