Why are most Jehovah's Witnesses former Roman Catholics?

Sorry Thess,

I forgot about this thread.

Jubilee?

I don't have a farm, I don't have any slaves, I don't own my own land, and no one owes me any money.

So it wouldn't really work.

But hey! How do you guys celebrate it in a spiritual way?

God Bless,
Kelly

 

Carson most likely won't respond to this, him being gone, and all, but for the sake of the others on this board.

Allow me show you the TRUTH.

The Catholic church CHANGED the day of Worship.

They admit it.

They admit that it was not based on the Bible.

There is NO verses in the Bible showing that the NT Church changed their respect of the Sabbath from the Seventh Day to the First Day.

Hopefully you all realize that the CC calls sunday the sabbath, and so did every suday keeping protestant church, up until the last 150 years or so.

Carson's post of momentary Sola Scriptura is not representative of the position of the Roman Catholic Church.

Look at this: Read the BOLD

It's long, but tells it all

From a Catholic SITE

NOW, if any one took the time to read these, and you are truly a protestant, and wish to truly leave the 'traditions' of the Catholic church and live your lives Sola Scriptura, then you should be seeking out a Seventh Day Sabbath keeping church. (for you baptists, that doesn't mean becoming an SDA. There are SDBaptist Churches all over the US, Canada, and Australia...etc)

God Bless,
Kelly

 

Can I be an Unchurched Seventh Day Sabbath Keeper....?

It's not the worship on the seventh day that is important, it's the rest
if I recollect your description, Kelly. I do have a problem with what
constitutes rest though. Can one partake of any activities at all ?

Watching a ball game during the sabbath hours might be rest and relaxation
for a farmer, but it would be considered work to a pro player who is reviewing
his previous game.

Bible reading is a form of worship, but to the preacher it might qualify as
preparations for a sermon which is his occupation that he gets paid for while
the rest of us are supposed to be resting on the sabbath......so to him it's work !!

I always thought that was a somber thing.....that many pastors relax all week and
then get paid on their chosen day of sabbath/rest for doing what they are hired to
perform....whereas the rest of us are prohibited from doing anything to advance
our chosen occupation......and then preach to us of the evils of working on the
sabbath / sunday.

Unchurched Worshipper of God/Jesus on All Seven Days,
Singer

 

Singer,

What you do and don't partake of on the Sabbath is between you and God, and if you are serious about observing it, pray, and God will show you how He wants you to observe it. Making a laundry list of 'do's' and don't's' is where the joy is taken out of the Sabbath, and EXACTLY what Jesus intended to repair!

I, personally do not watch any secular television, or partake of any form of secular entertainment (ie: amusements, movies etc.).

It is not a somber day at all! It is a day of rest and enjoyment. It is a day of family time, and fellowship. We don't ever get bored! It is the day when my husband and I can spend TRULY quality time with one another, and our kids.

As far as pastors are concerned, it is a GREAT misconception that they spend the 6 remaining days doing nothing! SDA Pastors spend the week visiting the sick, bedridden, and lost. Witnessing, fellowship, and counselling are a big part of their work week. On Sabbath they do, not as work, but as a willing response, what they have been called to do by God. It is not their 'work' to bring to the flock the Word of God! Leading their congregation in study of God's Word, and in Worship of Him is NOT, I repeat NOT, WORK!

If you were to endevour to keep the Sabbath Holy, I would be willing to bet money that the way you keep it will change almost every week, as you 'work' out with God how He wants you to keep it.

As far as being a farmer, the cows must be milked, and if your 'ox is in a ditch', you must get it out. WORK, would entail you carrying out your day as you do on the other six, which is intended for monetary gain. Feeding your animals and relieving your poor cows would be an act of kindness, and considered 'doing good' on the Sabbath.

God Bless, and HAPPY SABBATH!
Kelly

 

Considering the time and the day that that post was made 3AM, don't you think that there was a tremendous amount of work done here on the Sabbath?
DHK

 

Pharisee,

Did Jesus teach on the Sabbath?

Did the Apostles teach on the Sabbath?

Is typing work?

Is witnessing work?

Is fellowship work?

Is putting on your pants work?

 

Gal.3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
You are cursed if you do not keep ALL that is written in the law, all the time, every day.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
If you commit just one sin, break just one command, tell just one small lie, you are just as guilty as the greatest sinner that ever lived--Stalin, Hitler, etc. You are just as guilty as if you had broken all the law. Do you keep all the law all the time every day? If you don't you are cursed.

The Pharisee is the hypocrite who pretends to keep the law ("I keep the Sabbath."), a law which is impossible to keep, and keeps on breaking it anyway. Salvation is impossible to such a person.

That is why in Gal 3:
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
--The law is entirely useless, except to show us our own sinfulenss, and to point us to Christ.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
--If you are going to keep the law; don't be inconsistent. Keep them ALL!

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
--This is the only answer that man has--Faith in Christ who has redeemed us from the curse of the law. But it is by faith and faith alone; otherwise He could not redeem us from the curse of the law, for it is the entire law that he is redeeming us from--it's curse. Faith plus works = damnation.
Faith alone in Christ = Salvation
Faith alone in Christ, who is the only Most High God = salvation. He alone can redeem you. He alone has that power.
DHK

 

DHK,

Leave it to you to respond to my post with something that has NOTHING to do with the conversation at hand.

You are a legalist.

You dislike those who keep the ACTUAL Law of God, because it sheds light on your MAN MADE Laws that have nothing to do with GOD'S LAW.

I keep the Sabbath because I love God, and He told me to.

I am saved by the Grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ.

Nothing I do, adds to that.

But the things YOU do, and DO NOT do, knowing that the LAW is in His Commandments and you REFUSE to keep them, using the excuse that you are under grace, doing EXACTLY what the Bible warned against, are doing DISPITE to the Spirit of Grace.

I would rather live my life doing the best I can through the power of the Spirit of God, to live in obedience to God, then have to be in your shoes and stand before God an unrepentant sinner.

God Bless,
Kelly

 

"I am a legalist." That's one of the funniest things that you have said yet.
Remeber, you are the one that keeps the Sabbath, not me.
You are the one that tries to apply Old Testament Law to a New Testament dispensation.
Do you also refrain from pork like the Old Testament Jews. Even Peter learned not to be that legalistic

So go ahead. Keep the law. Be a hypocrite. For if you are going to keep one law you must keep them law. Tell me if you can. I know that you can't. The Bible tells me so.

"Yea let God be true, but every man a liar." Rom.3:4

Gal.3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Please explain. You either don't understand this verse, deliberatley ignore it, pretend that it is not in your Bible, or simply accept the fact that you are cursed. You are the one that keeps the law (Sabbath-keeping). Now, what do you do with the teaching of this verse?
DHK

 

You are a legalist. You keep rules made by man, and impose rules on people that are not in the Laws of God. Would you like me to name a few, and keep in mind I used to BE IFB?

So sad that you think your rebellion is something to brag about. Sad indeed.

Show me in the Bible where it said that there is a 'New Testament Dispensation'. The Bible said, in Malachi RIGHT before the OT ended that GOD'S people should CONTINUE in His Statues and Judgments and KEEP them, even in the New Heaven and the New Earth, according to Isaiah.

Peter didn't eat pork. I am vegan, I think I may have already told you that. I have been vegetarian most of my life, and about a year ago went completely vegan, for the sake of my children who are lactose intolerant. But YES I do abstain from the eating of unclean meat because God told me to. AND not just in the Levitical Laws. God speaks of a people, that kind of reminds me of you and your clan of Pharisees.
Isaiah 65:1. I Am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
2. I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
3. A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
4. Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5. Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
6. Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,
7. Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the Lord, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

In order for you to call me a hypocrite and it be valid, you must show that I am telling someone to do something that I myself do not do, or telling someone NOT to do some thing that I myself DO. I am not asking anyone to do anything that I MYSELF have not commited myself to God to do.

You are misusing that text. If any man breaks one law, he is guilty of them all, saying that all sin is the same. (exept one) The passage you are referencing is regarding those who seek to gain SALVATION by the keeping of the Law. I do nothing of the sort. I keep the Laws that I do, out of Love for God, and respect and Holy Fear. He tells me in His Word that IF I love Him, I will keep His Commandments. So I do, as a demonstration of my love for Him.

Don't you love Him?

Are you making a confession here?

There it is! We are cursed if we cannot keep every law, and THAT is why we need a SAVIOR. Paul warns us, that when we find ourselves under Grace that it does not give us liberty to sin. If we know that an action or lack thereof is a sin and we continue in that sin anyway, we are doing dispite to the Spirit of God. Why would you want to do that?

DHK, we are ALL cursed. That is why we need a Savior. You are missing the whole point of that verse.

I keep the Sabbath. I do not work. That is what the commandment states. I also do not kill. I also honor my parents. etc. etc. Does it make me a legalist because I do not murder? Does it make me a legalist because I do not covet?

Why does obeying the FOURTH Commandment suddenly make me a legalist, when keeping the other 9 didn't?

God Bless,
Kelly

 

If you know me and my church so well, yes I will call you bluff. Go ahead. Name a few. What do you think it is that makes me a "so-called legalist"? This ought to be interesting since I consider myself to be under grace, and you place yourself under the law.

Nothing like taking the Old Testament Scripture out of its context, is there? But that is precisely why you keep the Sabbath, when we know from Exodus 31, that it was a covenantal sign given to the Jewish nation and their generations forever. (And which tribe are you from??) So it comes as no surprise to me when you deliberately yank Scripture out of its context, making it mean something other than what it was intended to mean--"wresting the Scriptures to your own damnation."

Prove that Peter did not eat pork. Consider the evidence:
1. He was commanded three times by the Lord to rise, kill, and eat. The meat in the sheet was "unclean", probably pork. So if it wasn't pork, it was at least unclean.
2. Peter would not go against the Word, once received.

1Timothy 4:1-5
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Notice first of all that any religion, teacher, or false teacher, per se, that teaches or commands one to abstain from meats (i.e., a certain kind of food such as pork) is teaching a doctrine of demons. SDA's fit right in here.
Secondly, notice that God has ordained that every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused, and that includes the swine--pork products. So eat up! Or, at least do not refrain for religious purposes. And if you say that God told you to refrain, it wasn't God, it was a demon, and a doctrine of a demon. God has ordained that foods are clean, and nothing to be refused. God never told you to refuse or abstain from any kind of food, unless you are allergic to it (eg., lactose intolerant).

You are a hypocrite, in that you say that you keep the law, but you do not. In fact you cannot. No man can keep the law. You only say you do. That is hypocrisy.

The Sabbath is an Old Testament law, that you say you keep. It was actually given to Israel, not anyone else (Ex.31). The law referred to in James 2:10 is no doubt referring to the Ten Commandments. I don't even believe you can keep those. In a sense you are like the rich young ruler in Mark 10, who came to Jesus saying, "Good Master, What must I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus asked him, "Why do you call me good; there is none good but one; and that is God." He then pointed him to the Law. He listed a few of the Ten Commandments as examples and said do this and thou shalt live. But the young man was a liar and a hypocrite. He said, "All these things have I kept from my youth up. What a lie that was!! Jesus proceeded to show him how he would break "Thou shalt not covet, for he coveted his own riches rather than desire Christ, and thus went away sorrowful.
You have committed idolatry, stolen, borne false witness, committed adultery, murder, coveted, etc. You have broken all ten commandments at one time or another, and more likely quite often. Perhaps you need to do a study on the Ten Commandments sometime.

You keep the Sabbath Law, meant for the nation of Israel, and their generations (Ex.31). You keep dietary laws (some of them) of the Jews. You keep the law. You have put yourself under the law, under the works of the law. In doing that you have made yourself cursed. I am not under the law, I am under grace, and therefore not under that curse.
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:"
I don't do the works of the law; you do. You are the legalist. You are under the curse.
Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law. But that doesn't apply to you, because you are still trusting in the Law, keeping the Sabbath, etc. You refuse to trust in Christ and accept His redemption from the law. You just keep on doing the works of the law anyway. That is why you are under the curse of the law.
DHK

 

James 2:10 "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."

Who's the "legalist" here? The one insists on keeping ove law over the 166 other Levitical edicts, or the one who recognizes that, as Paul said in Romans 3:20-26, "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus."?

By the way, I'm too lazy to read all seventeen pages. Did you ever come up with those Biblical contradictions to the Athenasian Creed?

Edited because I'm also apparently too lazy to complete a thought...