Are these guys Baptists?

Tuor:
There are a number of things Max has said that do not add up. He once said, I would make a good baptist." Later, he expressed remorse for his statement. Perhaps, if it is the case he teaches and practices this error, he will in like kind express his remorse for this error. I pray that he does.

 

On that we agree Tuor.

 

Tuor:
I agree congregations are autonomous. However, I do not understand why a congregation, claiming autonomy, would see a need to be a part of an eclesiastical organization or council. This would seems to limit autonomy.

 

Tuor:
We have some members of our congregation who are married to baptists. They tell me that there is a vast difference in doctrine, especially as it pertains to salvation and worship. I do share your desire that ALL MEN be united in the name of Christ. However, this desire and prayer, at present, are far from being reality.

As for Max Lucado, I stopped buying his books several years ago. This was in response to his erroneous teaching about salvation. I am not aware of his stance today. However, to my knowledge he has not repented of his teaching.

 

Tuor:
I made my statement about vast differences based on their testimony and, of course, my personal bible study with the tenets of faith for the baptist.
I do not see Christians as moderate, liberal or conservative. The Bible teaches us one is lost or saved, faithful or unfaithful. My fellowship is based upon scriptural authority and a one's faithfulness to it. Authority of scripture is the only OBJECTIVE standard by which one can truly know the truth. John 8:32. My personal faith and teaching are based on this principle. Scriptural authority would be the basis for me to attempt to reconcile with any religious group. I do believe it is possible. Is it likely? Probably not.

 

Tuor:
What is the basis for your statement about instrumental music? Is it your opinion? Is it based on the authority of Christ? How do you support your statement that my study has led to an absurdity? By what standard do you make this judgment? Is it objective, or just your subjective opinion?

Furthermore, I did not say the use of mechanical instruments would condemn one to hell or save one in heaven. What is your basis for this assertion? How did you make this conclusion? Was it based on something I said, or what the Bible teaches? Don't you think it would be appropriate to at least ask me about my position before you make an assertion about what you think it might be?

I have no regrets to offer on behalf of truth. I regret men refuse to accept it. One can debate any issue. However, sir, instrumental music, for example, is either right or wrong. It cannot be both. There is no such thing as the exclusive middle. The scriptures either authorize it's use, or they do not. If they do, then ALL should use them. If the scriptures do not authorize them, then ALL should reject their use.

I am certainly open to debate this issue with anyone. The objective static standard of truth, the new testament of Christ, will, to the rational mind, settle the issue.

My desire is to practice and teach the new testament of Christ, no more, and no less.

 

Tuor:
I am under the Law of Christ. Gal. 6:2,not the law of Moses. David also sacrificed animals, made drink offerings, went to Jerusalem three times a year , gave a tithe of all that he had. I do not do any of these things. WHY? They are not authorized by Christ who has all authority, not Moses or David. Mat. 28:18-20. David also transgressed in his worship by using instruments.

The Bible says in Amos 6:5,  That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David; It would appear to me David violated the command of God concerning the use of the instrument. Are you seriously expecting someone to accept David, who violated the command of Nathan, as an example to follow?

The simple fact of scripture is that God has not authorized Christians to use mechanical instruments of music in worship. This is the TOTALITY OF EVIDENCE FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT OF CHRIST. Mat. 26:30, Acts 16:24,25, Romans 15:9, I Cor. 14:15, Hebrews 2:12, James 5:13, Col. 3:16, Eph. 5:19.

So, if mechanical instruments are authorized, who authorized them to be used in the new testament worship? How, pray tell,does one know which one to use, and when and where to use it?

Were the instruments Of David used in the temple or outside? How do you know? What were his mechanical inventions? How do you know?

This argument is a feeble attempt to justify a practice unauthorized by Christ. There is no delcared statement, approved example, or necessary inference one is to use them. The static standard of truth does not now, and never will, authorize the use of these inventions of men.

 

Tuor:
I can show you where any sin unrepented is one that will condemn a man to hell. The Bible says in I John 5:17,  All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. In Revelation 21:27, And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. Jesus said in Luke 13:3,  I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent ye shall all likewise perish.

 

Tuor:
I asked the question about David and his inventing music to himself. I can also say that II Cor. 29: 25 does not say they used them during the temple worship. This is not implied or declared. In fact, a study of Jewish temple worship will, in fact, teach they were not used during temple worship. You are arguing against yourself with this line of reasoning. The only manure being spread is your absurd assertion the Bible does not mention authority anywhere. Since you like the Old Testament try reading Leviticus 10:1,2. Never mind, I will post it for you. Leviticus 10:1  ¶And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. Jesus said ALL AUTHORITY was his in ALL matters to be taught or practiced. Mat. 28;18-20. The word phrase in his name means authority. If I sign someones'paycheck as my own, I will go to jail, as I do not have the authority to do so. Col. 3:17.

You openly contradict your own premise by quoting II Cor. 29:25 as the authority to use mechanical instruments, yet that word does not appear in the text. So, it is obvious you are appealing to the command of God as authority. Is a command of God an option or a must? Does a command authorize or not?

As for the multitude of items listed such as bathtubs, loudspeakers etc. These items are used in carrying out a lawful command. They are expedients. I Cor. 6:12. One can baptize in a pool, a tub, a river. This may be done because it carries out a lawful command. I Cor. 6:12. One may use a microphone, or loudspeaker, or preach by radio or tv as they used to carry out the lawful command to preach the gospel to all the world. The same could be said of new songs as you say. I would like to know what they are. And, how do you know? which songs are old and which ones are new? The divine requirement in the praise of God is that the praise be by words of Christ that dwell in you richly with all wisdom and communicate a spiritual message. Col. 3:16, Eph. 5:19. This praise is to be understood by each one engage in the praise. It is to be reciprocal. it is also to originate from the mind of yourselves. Therefore, both old and, as you say " new songs" are carrying out the lawful command to sing.