3 days

"Verily I say to you today you shall be with Me in Paradise" CAN be rendered in such a way as to make it fully consistent with the fact that Christ was not in Paradise until 3 days later.

But a lot of people object to that rendering as has been demonstrated on this board when that subject comes up.

The NT speaks of Paradise 3 times -- Luke 23, 2Cor 12 and Rev 2.

In 2Cor 12 we find that this is in the 3rd Heaven.

In Rev 2 we find that it is where the Tree of Life and the Throne of God are.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Or,....

You can take the story of Abraham's Bosom literally and realize that was 'Paradise' until Jesus ascended...

Also, Jesus is prophesied to have led captives captive in His train...


Another obscure place says that hell hath enlarged her bounds...


So, IMHO, The thief was in 'Paradise' or Abraham's Bosom as one of the righteous dead...

Then when Jesus rose from the dead He led the 'Righteous Dead' to the Heavenly Kingdom...

And, the area previously sequestered from hell known as Abraham's Bosom was absorbed into hell...

But, that's just one man's theory.

 

O.k. First of all you must remember that Jesus died for the whole man,(body,soul,spirit). The answer is in the text. When Jesus died, His body went to the grave, His Spirit went to the Father, and His soul went to hell. Now, we know when Jesus went to hell, it was just to be our scapegoat(Lev.16) and that very day He was over in Paradise(Abraham's bosom). Jesus did not preach in prison, he preached to the spirits that are in prison, (in the days of Noah). Those spirits that are in prison are there because they were disobedient to the preaching of Noah, in the days of Noah(2Pet.2:5; 1Pet.3:20).

 

And he was saying, ""Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!'' And He said to him, ""Truly I say to you today you shall be with Me in Paradise.''

Most christians today read the "today as be descriptive of "you shall be with me in paradise" meaning that on that day he would be with Christ in heaven.

Isn't it just as likely that the today is descriptive of I tell you? In other words, I'm telling you today that you will be with me in paradise. This would be important because Jesus would be letting the man know that he didn't have to waite fot Christ to be in his kingdom a remember him, he could know right now.

 

As has been discussed elsewhere, we know that Hades (or in Hebrew, Sheol) is the place where dead souls rest, according to Jewish tradition. Prior to Jesus' coming, when a person died, their souls went to Hades (not Heaven, and not Hell, as we know them today). We generally accept by tradition that, when Jesus died on the cross, he descended into Hades. Presumably, the thief, upon his dying, also went to Hades. Jesus did not say "today you will be with me in Heaven", he said, "todday you will be with me in paradise". I take that to mean that, that very day, the thief would be in Jesus' presence. He'd be in Hades, but he'd be in Jesus' presence.

It doesn't say that, actually. In the Greek, it says that Lazarus went to Hades. Hell as we know it is generally "Gehenna". Hades is not Gehenna. Also, we shouldn't presume here that "Abraham's bosom" is Heaven. The parable here is that one was cared for after death, and one was not. One of the things that the parable tells us is that we find favor with God when we favor our brothers. Remember, this is a parable, not a doctrinal statement. If it were strictly doctrinal, we'd have to accept the idea that salvation is by works, and we know that isn't what Jesus is teaching.

Yes, that would be correct. Upon Jesus being raised from the dead, and ascending to be with the Father, the saved in Christ go to be with the Father upon death.

 

Why not just say they both died and went to heaven?

 

I believe God gave us the Bible to know what he want us to know. </font>[/QUOTE]

Praise the Lord!

 

#1. There is no statement in all of scripture calling paradise "Abraham's bosom" or calling Abraham's bosom - paradise.

#2. The parable of Luke 16 never mentions Paradise.

#3. Paradise is only LOCATED once - and that is in 2Cor 12 where we find that it is the 3rd heavens. There is no mention in all of scripture that "it used to be some place else".

If one takes the Bible as authorotative - then Paradise is in the 3rd heavens - and that is the only place it is mentioned "being" aside from the Rev 2 reference telling us that it is where the Tree of Life is.

You are right to identify the origin for your your speculation as being obscure interpretations.

In Christ,

Bob

 

I have seen it suggested that this interpretation is really a matter of misplaced punctuation, and that it might be more properly stated, "Verily I say to you this day, you shall be with me in Paradise." If true, that would resolve the whole issue of this day vs 3 days by removing the obstacle entirely.

TheWorm