Where's the line?

I think most people see it that way because they think that once a person experiences death then the next phase is eternity. People either don't believe in or forget that there is a 1,000-year period that takes place before what we think of eternity begins.

 

Revelation 7:17
For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.


Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

I don't know about you but when a child is chastened he usually cries from the pain.

according to scripture there will nothing NEGATIVE for those who are in Christ Jesus in the after life. AMEN!

 

Perhaps the question should be: Where does the Bible say that a Christian will experience any chastening after death?

That being said there are a number of passages that indicate the joy that awaits the Christian.

1 Peter 1:6-9
6. Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7. That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8. Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9. Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Revelation 7:9-12
9. After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
10. And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12. Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 21:3, 4
3. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

Sorry Frenchy, I did not see your post.

 

Since there will be no sin in heaven, exactly what would God be chastening anyone for?

 

hmmmm ... The payment of the Cross assures us that the consequences after death are joy. We do go thru the Judgment Seat of Christ, but there is no judgment for sin / sins there. Those passing thru that judgment go on out into eternity, having received their rewards .

As to chastenings in this life, 1 John 1:9 says that we restore fellowship with God by confessing our daily sins. Unconfessed sins lead to chastenings.

Therefore, God's judgments (chastenings) in this life are for our good; oft they are nudges and sometimes kicks in the seat of the pants to stay on the straight and narrow, but they are not judgment in the sense of a rap sheet being used against us at some future date.

 

That's what I don't understand. Most Christians, or at least a good number of Christians, will say that if a person is walking in sin that is unconfessed that that believer's fellowship with God is hindered if not cut off.

But what amazes me is most Christians believe that if a person dies in that unconfessed sin they think there is something magical about death that just does away with that sin and the fellowship is automatically restored because the person dies.

When just thinking about that it doesn't make a lot of sense. If a person's fellowship with the Lord is in disaray now death is not the cure all. That relationship still has to be dealt with.

There are some that allow discipline in their lives in the hear and now, and they allow God to mold them and shape them. But unfortunately there are others that have no desire to be molded or shaped and they will have to go through that process during the 1,000 years so that once eternity begins they are not going to mess everything up for everyone else.

 

James:
Jesus paid the sin debt for the Christian on the cross. He did this because we are without any abiity to pay for it ourselves. Without Jesus' payment credited to our account, we would be forced to spend eternity making never ending partial payments. Once Jesus paid the debt, it was fully satisfied/finished! So, chastening in this life is not for the purpose of being punished as payment for sin. We are chastened as sons. A good father chastens his son not to extract punishment or payment for wrongdoing. Rather, he chastens the son to mold him for better things ahead and to bring him closer to fellowship with his father.

 

There is a difference between the noun and verb form of sin. When Christ died (and rose again for our justification) all who accept Him as Lord and Savior are forgiven of both the fallen state intot which we were born and for the sins we have committed.

The verb form of sin the actions we do that fall short of what would please the Lord. They are acts, not states. So, when I commit a sin (such as lying) I am not pleasing God and falling short, but the condemnation has already been done away with at the cross. So, the fellowship may be broken by our actions, but the relationship can not be broken by us since we didn't have the power to initiate it, and since we can not break what God has mended.

That is what is so amazing about grace - it doesn't make sense to us becuase our sense of justice and fairness gets in the way. I mean this with no offense, but the way you described it sounds fair until you are the one in question. Then we start to look for some other standard by which we can find mercy. Thankfully, the Lord already has it in place.

 

Bro. Shane, I guess I should have chosen my words more carefully. I do not want anyone to get the misunderstanding that I believe that a Christian can fall from grace or lose his/her salvation. That's not what I was saying at all.

However, what I was saying is exactly what you were pointing out. We continue to sin despite our salvation. That sin must be dealt with on a continual basis or our fellowship/relationship with God will not be right. We are still His children, but not in good standing when we are walking in unconfessed sin.

So if we are in disfellowship with God now and we die in that unconfessed sin then why do some think death is a magic potion that makes that unconfessed sin go away.

It must be dealt with.

And I agree totally that God's discipline is for our good. And it will be for the good of those that continue to receive it during that 1,000-year period.

Most children see a spaking as punishment, so it's no wonder we as children of God are any different. But that's not how God sees it and it's not how we should see it. We should view God's discipline as corrective measures that are only going to help us not hurt us.

 

Understood, thanks.

 

James_Newman

When you attempt to explain Scripture from a dispensational viewpoint things get confusing don't they? [Your post of March 21, 2006 10:01 PM]

 

That is probably reminiscent of the rationale that lead to the doctrine of Purgatory.

 

OldRegular can you point me to a Scripture passage that teaches that death is the cure all for a Christian that dies while walking in unrepentant sin.

And by the way God's discipline and the Catholic ideal of purgatory are two different things. But I will agree that the purgatory teaching is probably a false teaching that spun off of a true teaching dealing with God's chastisement of His children. But as far as I can tell there's not truth to the purgatory teaching in my little experience with that teaching.

 

Can you point to a verse of Scripture which indicates that God punishes His children by adoption after death?

Also you are incorrect about purgatory. The doctrine of purgatory is precisely that of purging veniel sins and being punished for mortal sins.