Robert Haldane oon Ro.9:13

His words were wrong last year...and remain wrong this year, too, as Helen noted back then.

What's with all of these old threads being rekindled?

 

Wouldn't that include everyone that is not "born again"?

 

Good thing that we have you to enlighten us as to what God had "meant" throughout the pages of scripture.

 

Very good post dntccc. I have often personally struggled with this doctrine, usually relying on OSAS, as it was always more "comforting". Thanks for "boiling it down" and backing it up. Much to contemplate here. Thanks.

 

I think in "God hated Esau" we have to let the Bible define that, not us.

In context and when compared with other scripture, this indicates God choosing one over the other: He chooses Jacob over Esau. I don't think we can justify hating people on our part or say God has feelings of hatred for people.

The NET Bible renders the Malachi source for this as:

and has this Note:

 

Then you are believing that you keep your salvation by works? What action(s) is/are enough to lose salvation?

The problem with interpreting Hebrews this way is that you make it contradict other passages that indicate eternal security, including things that Jesus said.

 

Marcia

I am saying exactly what I have said, I have often "struggled" with the concept OSAS. dntcc pointed out very clearly that there exist many scriptures, dont recall if he quoted James or not, which indicate that salvation and "works" go hand in hand. When we become "saved" then yes "works" should follow from our love and gratefulness to our God for offering us such a wonderful and precious gift, that of being a member of His family. Do you think it possible for one to "renounce" their salvation? I am not trying to fight here, just being honest.

 

Well, I guess I have never struggled with OSAS so I probably don't have much sympathy for those who do. It seems so crystal clear to me that we do not lose our salvation.

As for the hypothetical as to whether someone who is saved can renounce their salvation (which is what I think you are asking), I tend to think "no." For one thing, I do not think a saved person would want to.

I do believe that saved people can drift and even get into cults or non-christian religions but that the Holy Spirit convicts them. They may or may not respond to the Holy Spirit, but the Spirit continues to convict. In my ministry, when I hear this type of story from believers, they have never renounced Jesus but sort of blended him with other beliefs or put him on the shelf, so to speak, but they do not renounce him.

I also think it's possible that a believer who truly drifts into immoral living or a non-Christian belief and who does not follow the conviction of the Spirit may be taken home. There are biblical examples for this.

 

Learn how to type, Rippoon!




:smilewinkgrin: