Trusting Jesus = Justification

That was one instance.

 

And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. Luke 18:13, 14

And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called thy son. But the father said to his servants, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him; and put a ring on his hand, and shoes on his feet: And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found.Luke 15:21-24

 

John, do you read what you post?

Your catechism says that repentance consists of contrition and faith. If faith is contrition, then why the distinction in your quote?

If repentance = faith + contrition
and you can not have faith without contrition
then you can not have faith alone.

What you have is repentance.

Instead of "faith alone", which you say cannot be without contrition, you need to say "repentance alone".

Of course that isn't true either, but at least you would be a little bit closer to the Truth.

 

John, do you read what you post?

Your catechism says that repentance consists of contrition and faith. If faith is contrition, then why the distinction in your quote?

If repentance = faith + contrition
and you can not have faith without contrition
then you can not have faith alone.

What you have is repentance.

Instead of "faith alone", which you say cannot be without contrition, you need to say "repentance alone".

Of course that isn't true either, but at least you would be a little bit closer to the Truth. </font>[/QUOTE]The Augsburg Confession is not a catechism. It is a confessional statement protesting certain abuses of the Roman Catholic Church during the period of the Reformation. One of the abuses was the teaching that satisfactions are necessary for repentance. People were told they must purchase indulgences from the church in order to make satisfaction for sin rather than trust in the merits of Christ alone.

You have made a logical fallacy that is commonly called confusing cause and effect:

A and B regularly occur together.
Therefore A is the cause of B.

Contrition is in no way a merit whereby we earn salvation. Christ alone has made satisfaction for all sins. Faith alone in Christ justifies. However, true faith can not exist in the heart of anyone who is not sorry for their sins.

 

No. I am merely pointing out to you that if you cannot have faith without out contrition, then you can't have faith alone.

If you must have A to have B then you can't have B alone.

 

By your logic then, good works justify us as well since they must follow faith. But neither contrition nor good works justify. Faith is the only means whereby we lay hold of the righteousness of Christ and apply His righteousness to ourselves: "Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ." Rom. 5:1.

 

Good works may usually follow faith, but not necessarily.

Good works can also exist completely outside of faith.

Your arguement doesn't wash.

Tell me, would a single unrepented sin mean that a person has no faith?

 

T2NOTU said:

Contrition is brought upon our hearts by the conviction of the Holy Spirit. When we yeild to the conviction of the Holy Spirit and our eyes are opened to our sinful state, we THEN can choose to accept Jesus in faith. BECAUSE of our yeilding our hearts, we are then convicted every day of our sins and strive to REPENT daily which means to turn from those sins and attempt to sin no more.

 

Originally posted by trying2understand:
Good works may usually follow faith, but not necessarily.

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. James 2:17

Good works can also exist completely outside of faith.

But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. Heb. 11:

Your arguement doesn't wash.

Tell me, would a single unrepented sin mean that a person has no faith?

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
1 John 1:7-10

We are "simul iustus et peccator," simultaneously saint and sinner. We daily sin much; therefore, we must walk in repentance and faith trusting in the merits of Christ alone for forgiveness.

 

Add another Baptist to the list of those who agree with Catechism of the Catholic Church.

 

Nope... just the Bible. Do you guys use that too?

 

You are taking this out of context in this debate.

It was you who brought up works, not I.

I addressed faith and works merely to point out to you that your arguement concerning faith and contrition did not wash.

Yo, John, the topic is over here.

 

They may be as filthy rags but they still exist.

 

The point is even an atheist can do works that are good, such as feeding the poor.

Good works can exist without faith.

But the relevant question is: can you have faith without contrition?

If not, then you cannot have "faith alone".

If yes, then you are saying that you are saved without the need for contrition.

 

The point is even an atheist can do works that are good, such as feeding the poor.

Good works can exist without faith.

But the relevant question is: can you have faith without contrition?

If not, then you cannot have "faith alone".

If yes, then you are saying that you are saved without the need for contrition. </font>[/QUOTE]What does contrition have to do with belief in Jesus. They are not directly related in any manner. However, one who has faith in Jesus will by the leading of the Holy Spirit have a sense of contrition for unforgiven sins, and for ever having a sin nature.

Contrition has more to do with love than with faith. Faith is the requirement for Salvation. If Love or contrition were the requirements, then the scriptures would say, to wit, unless you have contrition you cannot be saved. If Love is the requirement for Salvation, the scriptures would say without love, you cannot be saved. According to scriptures it is faith and only faith that is required of man for man to be saved.

 

The scriptures say that men can have faith so as to move mountains but not have love and they are nothing.

They also say that the only thing that counts is faith working through love.

The only faith that saves is a hoping, working, and loving faith. Faith is otherwise dead.

 

Does that mean then that the only people who get saved are those who hope, work and love?

What do scriptures say about works?
What do scriptures say about the evil people who love?
Scriptures say that faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.