Would you fellowship with a Seventh Day Adventist Family?

I admit it. I get real tired of the attitudes. Guess I
tire easily. 8o) But when a thread starts getting
circular, same things rehashed over and over, and
some resort to vitriolics, I start skipping
paragraphs and often whole posts. This makes
me a very poor one to be trying to continue a
conversation.

I reached that point yesterday, so I think I will leave
all this to you very able people on both sides of
the issue -- unless something major catches my
eye! 8o)

See you around the board! 8o)

 

Some good news for you Spitfire....:

When you and I and DKH all get to heaven, there won't
be tongues or Sabbath days to confuse us. We willl all
be there because we each have the Son; not because
we rested on the right day or went to the right church
or spoke in tongues or didn't speak in tongues.

Those things will all perish....even your Sabbath will perish.

"Whosoever has the Son has life" inspite of of the Sabbath.

Singer

 

The feel of your post I get, I see where you are going with this. I am not disagreeing with you on that respect.

On the Sabbath ending with the rest of it, I do have to disagree.

My reason for this is due to the proof in the Bible.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

So as much as I would like to be able to jump on the 'let's all get along' bandwagon.

The Bible says otherwise.

God Bless

 

Go ahead and knock yourself out girl. Jesus renamed some
of his friends. Just don't call me Judah </font>[/QUOTE]HotHead

http://mediaservice.photoisland.com/auction/Feb/20032179323510471189615.jpg

ME:



[edited to remove oversized image. replaced with link]

[ February 24, 2003, 09:20 AM: Message edited by: Clint Kritzer ]

 

DHK,

There's more.

"The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?"- D.L. MOODY, "Weighed and Wanting," page 47.

"I honestly believe that this commandment [the fourth, or Sabbath commandment] is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. 'The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.' It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was-in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.' - Id., page 46.

"'Sabbath' means rest, and the meaning of the word gives a hint as to the true way to observe the day. God rested after creation, and ordained the Sabbath as a rest for man."-Id., pages 46, 47.

"Saturday is my day of rest because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need."-Id., page 48.

It struck me as odd that you would balk at Moody for keeping the Sabbath holy. I decided to look further into it.

As it appears, HE was a Sabbath keeper.

Suprised?

God Bless

 

What surprises me is your obstinancy to be deliberately deceitful or deliberately ignorant. Please inform me which one. Read my post again. What is one of the definitions for Sabbath?

SABBATH = SUNDAY

In Moody's day the Sabbath meant Sunday. Have we got to first base yet? The Sabbath School was held on Sunday; it was in reality a Sunday School The Sabbath that he was observing was a Sunday. The word Sabbath in his time meant Sunday. You may look it up in the dictionary yourself.

Sabbath means the sixth day or Saturday, as defined in the Bible. I realize this. But there was an era when Christians used the term to define Sunday as their Sabbath. That is what Moody did. I have two biographies of Moody sitting right beside me. He was not a Sabbath keeper aka SDA movement. He observed and worshipped on Sunday. As I pointed out he preached in his church in Baltimore four times on Sundays. What better proof could you need. A Sunday School teacher led him to the Lord. He was interested in starting other Sunday Schools for other children. Sometimes he used the word Sabbath instead of Sunday, but it always meant the first day of the week. Don't deceive yourself and others into thinking that he was a "Sabbath-keeper," in the literal sense of the word. He was not. For you to claim that he was is either to remain deliberately deceitful or deliberately ignorant. Now that I have explained the facts to you, you cannot claim ignorance. Are you still going to be deceitful about this?
DHK

 

DHK,

"The Sabbath was binding in Eden, and it has been in force ever since. This fourth commandment begins with the word 'remember,' showing that the Sabbath already existed when God wrote the law on the tables of stone at Sinai. How can men claim that this one commandment has been done away with when they will admit that the other nine are still binding?"- D.L. MOODY, "Weighed and Wanting," page 47.

"I honestly believe that this commandment [the fourth, or Sabbath commandment] is just as binding today as it ever was. I have talked with men who have said that it has been abrogated, but they have never been able to point to any place in the Bible where God repealed it. When Christ was on earth, He did nothing to set it aside; He freed it from the traces under which the scribes and Pharisees had put it, and gave it its true place. 'The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath.' It is just as practicable and as necessary for men today as it ever was-in fact, more than ever, because we live in such an intense age.' - Id., page 46.

"'Sabbath' means rest, and the meaning of the word gives a hint as to the true way to observe the day. God rested after creation, and ordained the Sabbath as a rest for man."-Id., pages 46, 47.

"Saturday is my day of rest because I generally preach on Sunday, and I look forward to it as a boy does to a holiday. God knows what we need."-Id., page 48.

It struck me as odd that you would balk at Moody for keeping the Sabbath holy. I decided to look further into it.

I'm sorry, WHAT did I say in that post?

ALL of that was quotes of other people.

It is deceitfulness now to quote people?

UHH, YOU are the one who said Moody kept the Sabbath.

All I did was quote him.

Again your inability to comprehend what you read shines through!

Even if Dwight Moody was a Sunday keeper, does not negate the fact that he made this statement.

CATHOLICS made all those statements, and THEY are sunday keepers!

The point of all those quotes is to show that you and many others like you, take it upon yourself to prove from Scripture something that is not scripturally founded.

If you have so much reverence for Dwight Moody, maybe you should listen to him

The reason my post is so abhorrent to you is because, it WITHOUT DOUBT proves that you are wrong, and that just doesn't fit in with your little games.

I know I make you but the truth will shine through no matter how much you refuse it.

Don't get mad at me for posting Dwight Moody, get mad at him for proving you decieved.

God Bless

 

Spitfire:

Hey that name is cute....complimentary in the least..!!
You know I'm not abusive with my insights, but I'm impressed
that being the ''kin'' we are; that our names both give testimony
to FIRE.

Thank you; it's good to be associated in this way.

Hothead

 

HotHead,

We were already related in two ways.

Jesus....

And....

I sing, play piano, and guitar.....

But now, we are truly bonded. By fire.

Welded even.

The faithful flame,

SpitFire

[ February 18, 2003, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: 3AngelsMom ]

 

DID JESUS KEEP THE SABBATH? -or did He break it.

Upon one Sabbath day, as the Saviour and His disciples returned from the place of worship, they passed through a field of ripening grain. Jesus had continued His work to a late hour, and while passing through the fields, the disciples began to gather the heads of grain, and to eat the kernels after rubbing them in their hands. On any other day this act would have excited no comment, for one passing through a field of grain, an orchard, or a vineyard, was at liberty to gather what he desired to eat. See Deut. 23:24, 25. But to do this on the Sabbath was held to be an act of desecration. Not only was the gathering of the grain a kind of reaping, but the rubbing of it in the hands was a kind of threshing. Thus, in the opinion of the rabbis, there was a double offense.

The spies at once complained to Jesus, saying, "Behold, Thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the Sabbath day."

When accused of Sabbathbreaking at Bethesda, Jesus defended Himself by affirming His Sonship to God, and declaring that He worked in harmony with the Father. Now that the disciples are attacked, He cites His accusers to examples from the Old Testament, acts performed on the Sabbath by those who were in the service of God.

The Jewish teachers prided themselves on their knowledge of the Scriptures, and in the Saviour's answer there was an implied rebuke for their ignorance of the Sacred Writings. "Have ye not read so much as this," He said, "what David did, when himself was an hungered, and they which were with him; how he went into the house of God, and did take and eat the shewbread, . . . which it is not lawful to eat but for the priests alone?" "And He said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." "Have ye not read in the law, how that on the Sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? But I say unto you, That in this place is one greater than the temple." "The Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath." Luke 6:3, 4; Mark 2:27, 28; Matt. 12:5, 6.

If it was right for David to satisfy his hunger by eating of the bread that had been set apart to a holy use, then it was right for the disciples to supply their need by plucking the grain upon the sacred hours of the Sabbath. Again, the priests in the temple performed greater labor on the Sabbath than upon other days. The same labor in secular business would be sinful; but the work of the priests was in the service of God. They were performing those rites that pointed to the redeeming power of Christ, and their labor was in harmony with the object of the Sabbath. But now Christ Himself had come. The disciples, in doing the work of Christ, were engaged in God's service, and that which was necessary for the accomplishment of this work it was right to do on the Sabbath day.

Christ would teach His disciples and His enemies that the service of God is first of all. The object of God's work in this world is the redemption of man; therefore that which is necessary to be done on the Sabbath in the accomplishment of this work is in accord with the Sabbath law. Jesus then crowned His argument by declaring Himself the "Lord of the Sabbath,"--One above all question and above all law. This infinite Judge acquits the disciples of blame, appealing to the very statutes they are accused of violating.

Jesus did not let the matter pass with administering a rebuke to His enemies. He declared that in their blindness they had mistaken the object of the Sabbath. He said, "If ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless." Matt. 12:7. Their many heartless rites could not supply the lack of that truthful integrity and tender love which will ever characterize the true worshiper of God.

Again Christ reiterated the truth that the sacrifices were in themselves of no value. They were a means, and not an end. Their object was to direct men to the Saviour, and thus to bring them into harmony with God. It is the service of love that God values. When this is lacking, the mere round of ceremony is an offense to Him. So with the Sabbath. It was designed to bring men into communion with God; but when the mind was absorbed with wearisome rites, the object of the Sabbath was thwarted. Its mere outward observance was a mockery.

Upon another Sabbath, as Jesus entered a synagogue. He saw there a man who had a withered hand. The Pharisees watched Him, eager to see what He would do. The Saviour well knew that in healing on the Sabbath He would be regarded as a transgressor, but He did not hesitate to break down the wall of traditional requirements that barricaded the Sabbath. Jesus bade the afflicted man stand forth, and then asked, "It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill?" It was a maxim among the Jews that a failure to do good, when one had opportunity, was to do evil; to neglect to save life was to kill. Thus Jesus met the rabbis on their own ground. "But they held their peace. And when He had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, He saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other." Mark 3:4, 5.

When questioned, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath days?" Jesus answered, "What man shall there be among you, that shall have one sheep, and if it fall into a pit on the Sabbath day, will he not lay hold on it, and lift it out? How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath days." Matt. 12:10-12.

When Jesus turned upon the Pharisees with the question whether it was lawful on the Sabbath day to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill, He confronted them with their own wicked purposes. They were hunting His life with bitter hatred, while He was saving life and bringing happiness to multitudes. Was it better to slay upon the Sabbath, as they were planning to do, than to heal the afflicted, as He had done? Was it more righteous to have murder in the heart upon God's holy day than love to all men, which finds expression in deeds of mercy?

In the healing of the withered hand, Jesus condemned the custom of the Jews, and left the fourth commandment standing as God had given it. "It is lawful to do well on the Sabbath days," He declared. By sweeping away the senseless restrictions of the Jews, Christ honored the Sabbath, while those who complained of Him were dishonoring God's holy day.

Those who hold that Christ abolished the law teach that He broke the Sabbath and justified His disciples in doing the same. Thus they are really taking the same ground as did the caviling Jews. In this they contradict the testimony of Christ Himself, who declared, "I have kept My Father's commandments, and abide in His love." John 15:10. Neither the Saviour nor His followers broke the law of the Sabbath. Christ was a living representative of the law. No violation of its holy precepts was found in His life. Looking upon a nation of witnesses who were seeking occasion to condemn Him, He could say unchallenged, "Which of you convicteth Me of sin?" John 8:46, R. V.

The Saviour had not come to set aside what patriarchs and prophets had spoken; for He Himself had spoken through these representative men. All the truths of God's word came from Him. But these priceless gems had been placed in false settings. Their precious light had been made to minister to error. God desired them to be removed from their settings of error and replaced in the framework of truth. This work only a divine hand could accomplish. By its connection with error, the truth had been serving the cause of the enemy of God and man. Christ had come to place it where it would glorify God, and work the salvation of humanity.

Jesus had come to "magnify the law, and make it honorable." He was not to lessen its dignity, but to exalt it. The scripture says, "He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till He have set judgment in the earth." Isa. 42:21, 4. He had come to free the Sabbath from those burdensome requirements that had made it a curse instead of a blessing.

 

Chrissy,

WELCOME!!

Thank you for that beautiful answer.

It's great to have another Sabbath Keeper here.

God Bless

 

[ February 18, 2003, 10:37 PM: Message edited by: Claudia ]

 

DHKs obligatory blustery intro -- What surprises me is your obstinancy to be deliberately deceitful or deliberately ignorant. Please inform me which one. Read my post again. What is one of the definitions for Sabbath?


DHK with some fiction
SABBATH = SUNDAY

DHK with a serious comment (finally)

In Moody's day the Sabbath meant Sunday. Have we got to first base yet? The Sabbath School was held on Sunday; it was in reality a Sunday School The Sabbath that he was observing was a Sunday. The word Sabbath in his time meant Sunday. You may look it up in the dictionary yourself.


Now that last comment was finally believable - and in fact that is exactly what I was thinking as I read the D.L.Moody quote - UNTIL I got to the part where he said that we was RESTING on Sabbath and preaching on Sunday.

Obviously it would be "absurd" to claim that "Sunday was the REAL Sabbath" in the 1800's or early 1900's. But DHK has a good point when he notes that most Christians DID consider Sunday to BE the Sabbath (the "Christian Sabbath" as they baptized it via trdition).

They did so because almost all Christians held God's 10 commandments in high honor and respect. They would have choked on the "God's-commandments-are-abolished" models that are so common today.

They argued FOR the 4th commandment on the basis that the 4th commandment is now applicable to Sunday.

But D.L.Moody was not fooled HE apparently kept their same regard for the 10 commandment BUT he did not share their proclivity for editing/changing the 4th commandment - according to your post.


Fascinating!!

I never knew that.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Good post Bob. Most Christians of that era believed in a "Christian Sabbath." If Moody did actually keep the Sabbath (Saturday) as a day of rest, as 3AM alleges, it would only be in name only, and not in any legal sense. For often he preached on that day in many of his week long campaigns. It would simply be the principle of having one day in seven of a day of rest. Clearly his biography shows that the day of worship as far as Moody was concerned was Sunday, which was often referred to as the Sabbath.
DHK

 

Gaursch Missy Spitfire; you mean you really accept me?
We could sure have a Jamboree....will it be Johnny Cash or
Alan Jackson...? Or maybe you can come to one of our Gospel
Jams and turn up the P.A. and get the preachers clapping their
hands and gettin' people excited for the Lord. We do that
ya know...!

Sad thing is though................Our advertisement was out through
radio and the press and we had 7 different denominations show
up for music, praise and a scrumptious free supper but there wasn't
a SDA member show up. One only lived one city block from the hall
and the other two lived two blocks. There are a whole three of them
in this small town. Why would that be ?????

Hothead

 

Bob Ryan and DHK,

Nice to meet you, I am new here to this conversation. Actually, the way that I feel about it is that it really doesnt matter THAT much if some individual person kept or didnt keep the Sabbath in my opinion. This is because we should not really determine what we should and shouldn't do - based upon what some supposedly "great" man did. There are lots of great men who did good things and many who had wrong ideas.

I tend to rather want to look at history, and groups of people who still kept the Sabbath, as it was kept originally. If you havent already, I suggest you go to Jim Arribito's site, and look at this page... and the ones that follow. It shows the history of all sorts of groups of people who still kept the 7th Day Sabbath.


http://www.tagnet.org/llt/sabcen.htm


and here is the "home page" of that same site (just in case you want to go look at some other things on there):

http://www.tagnet.org/llt/
------------

3 Angel's Mom,

Hello its nice to meet you and I'm just glad I could help

Thanks so much for the warm welcome!

[ February 18, 2003, 11:27 PM: Message edited by: Claudia ]

 

Hothead

There is only 3 of ANY kind of people where you live.

3 SDA's
3 Baptists
3 Pentecostals
3 Catholics (no wait there might be 4)
3 JW's
1 Mormon (they mostly stick to Utah)
1 Hothead!

What can you do? It's Nebraska.

 

DHK,

DL Moody was keeping the Sabbath Holy.

Regardless of how we break this down, or even regardless of HIS intentions.

He was keeping the Sabbath holy.

You cannot continue to disagree, without it being detrimental to your credibility.

I posted a direct quote of this man, and you are insisting I am being deceptive.

I have stated nothing that is untrue.

He stated he believed the Sabbath Commandment.

He stated he rested on SATURDAY.

He kept the Sabbath of Creation, Saturday as you call it, HOLY.

There is no deception there.

He kept it Holy.

God Bless

 

Originally posted by Singer:
"What can I do?.
Well, I can drive all 10 miles to town and not meet a car."

That's awesome. I can't leave my doorstep without meeting a car.

"Scream at the top of my lungs and no one hears me."

Nope, the people above me would hear.

"See the sunrise uninhibited by smog"

Now that one I have. There isn't smog in San Diego. Close to the ocean and all.

"Leave my doors unlocked (actually I don't know where a key is)"

I keep my door locked when I am IN HERE. Once a guy just walked into my apt. He said 'oops wrong one'

"Leave my vehicle sit along the road for 3 days unmolested"

Why would you want to leave your car on the side of the road for 3 days?

"Streak across the backyard unobserved."

I don't have a back yard, put I go out on my patio to cool off. At night of course.

"Pound on my piano and sing with no listeners."

I personally don't care if people hear or not, I usually take to the patio with my Jackson strapped on and sing at the top of my lungs.

"Know everyone personally in the phone book in the neighboring three towns."

I don't know my next door neighbor.

"I AM SO DEPRIVED........!!! POOR ME"

Ha ha. You have any spare acreage?

"P.S. Spitfire (the cat) got her tail chopped off in the fanblades
on my pickup truck. BEWARE !"

Are you threatening me?

You better watch it, I can spit fire.