Is worship on Sunday necessary?

sorry, somebody will have to help me with the scripture from Acts. The verse basically talks about the disciples meeting on the Lord's day and calls it the first day of the week.

I don't think that mandates sunday attendance and it is really a strong but faithful tradition. However, meeting on a day other than sunday demands this question: why not sunday?

I realize there are some missionaries who meet on different days of the week because of cultural differences that are not overcome in a couple of months. However, here in America, seems like meeting on another day would be "doing it my way" theology.

SoCM

 

The Bible says that we aren't to esteem one day other another.

I hope that's true because I'm leaving in a few minutes to go and watch my beloved Eagles beat the snot out of the Dallas Cowgirls.

Mike

 

I usuallly stay out of such discusssions,
because it is obvious in my profile that I am
Messianic, and it goes without saying that
Messianics meet on the Sabbath. However . . .

It also says that they met on the Sabbath, a
fact often ignored.

Nowhere in Acts is Sunday called the "Lord's
Day" or the "Day of the Lord." Neither term is
used in the Bible in reference to Sunday, but
both are used in reference, exclusively, to the
day of Judgment. It was long afterward that
one of the writers referred to Sunday as the
"Lord's Day"-- Justin Martyr? It was the Cath-
olic church that changed the worship day to
Sunday, and the king declared it to be the new
worship day, making Sabbath-worship illegal.

Well, I would ask you: Where did our God or
our Lord declare a new day? Where did they
declare the Sabbath to be obsolete? Was the
change of days human decision or our God's
decision?

Well, how about "doing it our God's way'
theology? 8o) You know, I will pay $100 to the
person who can prove to me, using the Bible,
that our God changed the day, or that our Lord
wanted us to change the day.

 

I agree with you Abiyah, the Bible does not change the Sabbath day (Saturday) to Sunday. Often we hear about how we are to be in Church on the Sabbath day, or the Lords day and by that they mean Sunday. I also agree with you that when the Bible speaks of the Lords Day, he speaks of his time of Judgment.

Why do Christian meet on Sunday? Perhaps the tradition comes from the fact that Jesus rose from the dead on the first day of the week. And in 1 Cor. 16 Paul makes reference to the laying aside a sum of money on the first day of the week.

But I find that in Scripture Christian met together on a daily bases. In Acts 2:46 it says that they met every day. And in Acts 17:11, these Christian met daily to search the Scripture. Acts 5:42 is another reference.

But when considering the Law of the Sabbath day, this too has been fulfilled in Christ. We do not need to follow the actuall Mosaic Law of the Sabbath, but as the Law was a shadow of things to come, we now can rest in the fulfillment of that Sabbath.

Heb 4:1-11
Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. For we also have had the gospel preached to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because those who heard did not combine it with faith. Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

"So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my rest.'"

And yet his work has been finished since the creation of the world. For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: "And on the seventh day God rested from all his work." And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest." It still remains that some will enter that rest, and those who formerly had the gospel preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. Therefore God again set a certain day, calling it Today, when a long time later he spoke through David, as was said before:

"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts."

For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
NIV

Col 2:13-18
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
NIV

 

The Bible also says to keep holy the Sabbath day.

 

I always find it interesting that when people want
to separate themselves from the Law, they call it
the "Law of Moses." Believe me, I understand
why this is done, and my intention is not to
criticize you personally 8o) , but no one seems
to stop and think: Who gave Moses the Law?
Our God, who says, "I am the Lord; I change
not." It was our God's Law, and in it, He said,
"Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy."

When our Lord came, He said, "Think not that I
am come to destroy the Law, or the Prophets: I
am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. . . .Till
heaven and earth pass, ont jot or one tittle shall
in no wise pass from the Law, till all be fulfilled,"
and all has not yet been fulfilled. 1 Corinthians
7:19 says that the "keeping of the command-
ments of God" is what is important. 1 John 2:3, 4
says "Hereby we do know that we know him, if
we keep his commandments. He that saith, I
know him, and keepeth not his commandments,
is a liar, and the truth is not in him."

Regarding Hebrews Heb 4:1-11, too many only
read the surface of that Scripture, and they read
through the glasses of tradition. For that reason,
I have made some clarifications in it below. If
you do not believe me, do the research for your-
self. I used your own Scripture quotations from
the NIV.

"Therefore, since the promise of entering his
eternal rest still stands, let us be careful that
none of you be found to have fallen short of it.
For we also have had the gospel preached to us,
just as they did; but the message they heard was
of no value to them, because those who heard
did not combine it with faith. Now we who have
believed enter that eternal rest, just as God has
said,

"So I declared on oath in my anger,
'They shall never enter my eternal rest.'"

"And yet his work has been finished since the
creation of the world. For somewhere he has
spoken about the seventh day in these words:
"And on the seventh day God rested from all
his work." And again in the passage above he
says, "They shall never enter my eternal rest."

"It still remains that some will enter that eternal
rest, and those who formerly had the gospel
preached to them did not go in, because of their disobedience. Therefore God again set a
certain day, calling it Today, when a long time
later he spoke through David, as was said
before in Psalm 95, which is a call to the
Sabbath worship:

"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts."

"For if Joshua had given them eternal rest, God
would not have spoken later about another day,
the weekly Sabbath. There remains, then, a
weekly Sabbath-rest for the people of God; for
anyone who enters God's eternal rest also rests
eternally from his own work, just as God did
from his. Let us, therefore, make every effort to
enter that eternal rest, so that no one will fall by
following their example of disobedience.

Regarding Col 2:13-18 --
"When you were dead in your sins and in the
uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made
you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
having canceled the written code, with its regu-
lations, that was against us and that stood op-
posed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the
cross. And having disarmed the powers and
authorities, he made a public spectacle of them,
triumphing over them by the cross."

How was the written code cancelled? When you
accepted the gift offered by our Lord's death on
the cross. This was when if was written on your
heart, and you became part of the First Fruits of
the New Covenant, which is yet to be fulfilled
when all that remains of Israel is saved (Jeremiah
31:33, 34).

'Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what
you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious
festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath
day. These are a shadow of the things that were
to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

How do we prevent people froom judging us?
By doing what is right in the first place. These
things are important because they are the
shadow of the greater idea--our Lord. They
are not made of little importance because they
are a shadow, but they are important because
of the One who makes that shadow--the Lord.

I know that many wiil not agree with me, but
that is all right. 8o)

 

The early church met daily. The sabbath was of no particular importance to them. Keeping the sabbath was a Jewish practice that had now been fulfilled in Christ. Paul delineate three groups of people in the Bible:

1Co 10:32 Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
There were Jews, Gentiles, and believers (the church). Once a person became a believer he was no longer considered a Jew or a gentile. They were one in Christ. There was no need to meet on the Sabbath. They were not Jews; they were Christians! And they met on the FIRST day of the week not the seventh day of the week which is Saturday or the Sabbath.

Ac 20:7 ¶ And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

The first day of the week is Sunday. By this time in the history of the Acts of the Apostles they had begun regular worship on Sundays. This had nothing to do with the Catholics. That assertion (about the Catholics changing the Sabbath to Sunday) sounds like SDA nonsense to me. The early church, though it first met daily, later it met on the first day of the week.

Col 2:16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

If you look carefully here, it says that "the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come" The sabbath is a shadow. That is all it is. A shadow is an image; it isn't the real thing. It is a picture, an image. Your shadow delineates who you are. The Christian Sabbath is Christ. He is our Rest. He is the "Real Thing." The sabbath was only a shadow. It was done away with at the cross and the apostles knew it. It didn't take a pope to change anything. It was already written in the Word of God.
DHK

 

First, I hope that we can discuss this without
rancor and name-calling.

 

Abiyah said:

Joshua 8:32; Joshua 23:6; 1 Kings 2:3; 2 Kings 14:6; 2 Kings 23:25; 2 Chronicles 23:18; Ezra 3:2; Ezra 7:6; Nehemiah 8:1; Daniel 9:11; Daniel 9:13; Luke 2:22; Luke 24:44; John 7:23; Acts 13:39; Acts 15:5; Acts 28:23; 1 Corinthians 9:9; Hebrews 10:28.

All of these references are found the phrase Law of Moses

Interestingly Jesus referred to this law as your Law - John 12:34; 15:25. Jesus also said:

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Abiyah said:

You are right in that God does not change, but He does change in the way He works with man:

Heb 1:1-3
In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

Abiyah said:

Abiyah, Abiyah, Abiyah my friend , I can't believe you used this again to support your view that we are to follow the Law of Moses. I wrote the explanation of this passage when we discussed the issue of the tithe. Did you read it? Please read it because I don't want to be typing for nothing. Here is my reply to that passage. The word fulfill does not mean "to confirm". It means to complete, expire, and fill. When Christ said that He did not come to destroy the law, He knew that He would be living a perfect sinless life, therefore completing the law that no other man could fulfill. This Law could be obeyed by Jesus Christ here on earth without breaking it. If Jesus would have sinned then the law would have been broken or destroyed. It was a righteous law, that Jesus followed to the "T". Jesus did fulfill the law which he was born under (Gal 4:4) by living in perfect obedience to it (Heb. 4:15). He also fulfilled that law by His death on the cross (Heb. 9:7-28). And the fulfillment of the law is love which is the new commandment that Christ gave to us. Let’s look at a few of the many of scriptures which instructs us that it is through the blood of Jesus Christ that we are no longer under the Law (which was really only to Israel anyway).

Col 2:14
having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

Eph 2:13-17
But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

Rom 7:1-5
For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage. So then, if she marries another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress, even though she marries another man.
So, my brothers, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit to God.

Rom 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

2 Cor 3:5-11
He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant-not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

John 1:17
For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.

Rom 6:13-14
For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.

What are Christ Commandments?

1 John 3:23-24
And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

1 John 4:21-5:1
And he has given us this command: Whoever loves God must also love his brother.

1 John 5:2-4
This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

2 John 4-6
It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

Gal 6:1-3
Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

John 13:34-35
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

John 15:12
My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.

 

The Bible also says to keep holy the Sabbath day.</font>[/QUOTE]Right, but
(a) that's the law and we're not under the law anymore
(b) under the law, the Sabbath is from sundown Friday to sundown Saturday so that still lets us off the hook for Sunday.
(c) Eagles 44, Cowgirls 13

Just so everybody knows, I did go to church before I went to the game.

Mike

 

I don't usually answer such long posts, when I
will need to quote so much of what is said,
because WebTV has extreme limitations. But
I will try, though it may take me all day. 8o)

 

Its funny that so many churches today require a 10% tithe yet claim to not be under law but under grace. It is true that the 10 commandments talk about sabbath keeping in no 4. Christians must decide for themselves if the commandments are still required to be kept today or not. I feel anyone would do well to keep the 10 commandments anything given by God to his people is worth carefull consideration.

 

Abiyah,
We can talk about the future in GloryLand! There will be an eternal Sabbath! There will be an eternal Lord's Day! There will be an eternal Jubliee!

Us bunch of Baptists haven't seen the last of God's Law! In fact, there will be an eternal Law in GloryLand--just like there will be eternal Grace--and I believe we spell His name--J-e-s-u-s! Now, ain't that a sweet name?

Your friend,
Blackbird

 

Abiyah

Thanks for your reply, sorry for my delay. Also thank you for your kindness again, too bad more people are not as kind as you here on the BB. I have noticed all your post are with gentleness, even in the midst of passion. Sorry for my brief reply here, I am limited on time.

I don't discard the Law of Moses because of a rebellious heart, but because Christ has fulfilled the Law, abolishing it with His flesh. The NT makes this unambiguously clear. I could quote a hundred more verses to this affect. Galatians, Romans, Hebrews, Colossians are all NT books that would state this. Secondly, there are some 613 Mosaic Laws. Of which contain some pretty harsh rules. In considering just the Sabbath, their are some rules that I am sure you do not follow perfectly. Including the death of anyone who fails to follow this Sabbath. The NT makes it clear that this law was a shadow of things to come.

Nope. Thank you for pointing that out. I meant 10:34 which reads, "Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'?

Well why not? LOL

I am sorry Abiyah, but this is not what the NT teaches. I believe that this promise to Israel of Jer. 31:33-37, and Heb. 8: 7-12 will be fulfilled in the Kingdom reign of Christ. We are led by the Spirit of God, not by the letter of the Law. Galatians teaches this truth explicitly.

But this is not at all what Ephesians is teaching. This would be contrary to what Ephesians is teaching. What difference would it make if we had 613 laws on a stone that we followed, or all 613 laws not in stone that we somehow had to follow anyway? And what about all the sacrificial laws?

That is a question I want to ask you?

Yes. Jesus came to fulfill the Mosaic law. And to specifically use any verse where Christ said, "my commandment" to include all of the mosaic laws is wrong. The Bible teaches us what Jesus commandments were. He left us with the Spirit, and with a new commandment. To love one another. The sum of all the Law is Love. Our guide for Christian living is not found in the legal code but is found in Love. Romans 13: 8-10 says this:

let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, "Do not commit adultery," "Do not murder," "Do not steal," "Do not covet," and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: "Love your neighbor as yourself." Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

The law of Sabbath, circumcision, tithe, sacrifices, and many more are fulfilled by Jesus. They are abolished. Furthermore, I do not believe they were ever given to a Gentile to begin with.

May God bless ,

Chet

 

The law of Sabbath, circumcision, tithe, sacrifices, and many more are fulfilled by Jesus. They are abolished. Furthermore, I do not believe they were ever given to a Gentile to begin with.

Except that law of the Sabbath is on how the Sabbath should be kept. None of these things you listed are in the 10 Commanements. When we talk about things like legalism and keeping the OT law, one could make a case with all the OT laws except for the 10 Commandments. There can be no arguement that the 10 commandments are unique above all of God's instructrions. The 10 Commandments are one single volume, not 10 indivual laws. The 10 commandments are timeless, and not conditional.

There's nothing in the NT that says to cease observing any if the 10 COmmandments.

So when Jesus was saying he came to fulfill and not abolish the law, was he referring to the cultural laws of judaism? If so, he wasn't referring to the 10 commandments, because they are not cultural.

I'm curious why we can refer to the 10 commandments as cultural, but not refer to Paul's ban on women preachers as cultural.

 

2 Cor 3:7-18
7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!

12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
NIV

 

Paul points out quite effectively that all men have his law written already on their hearts:

Ro 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

No matter where you go in this world, people innately know that it is wrong to steal, wrong to lie, wrong to commit adultery, wrong to commit murder, etc. God has written on the heart of every man His moral law, i.e., the Ten Commandments. But one of those commandments was a sign between Israel and Jehovah. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the New Testament believer. Consider carefully Exodus 31:12-18

Ex 31:12 ¶ And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
18 And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.

Speak unto the CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. MY SABBATHS YOU shall keep. It is a SIGN between ME AND YOU throughout your generations (vs.13)
The children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath..throughout their generations for a perpetual covenant (vs.16)
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever (vs. 17).

Do you think He could have made it any clearer? I don't. The Scriptures plainly teach that the Sabbath was the covenantal sign between the Jews and Jehovah. It was never intended to be kept by gentile believers, or New Testament believers. We are one in Christ. Christ is our Sabbath. We enter into His rest.
It is also interesting that all of the Ten Commandments are repeated as commands in the New Testament except the one about keeping holy the Sabbath Day. No where in the New Testament are we commanded to keep that command; yet all the others are repeated.
DHK

 

Hi, Chet.

Thank you for your kind compliment in your post.
That was very thoughtful; I just hope I can live up
to it.

You know, those cute little smiley faces--I
watched them for a while as I was reading your
post, and I am sure they take less than20 seconds
to reach a full smile on regular computers.
WebTV--what a pain it can be!!!

Well, we disagree. 8o) I think we both knew we
would, but it is nice to "talk" to someone who is
kind about it. Most people here are, though--
moree than gracious.

New Covenant--Spoken of in 2 Corinthians 3:1 -
18, it is specifically called the "new covenant" in
verse 6. The difference is that the old covenant
was written on stone and was basically a
Suzerain/Vassel treaty between our God and
His people, unbreakable, eternal, as long as
the parties exist. It is also spoken of in
Jeremiah 31:31 - 34, specifically as a "new
covenant" in verse 32, with the idea of the new
covenant being as a groom/bride covenant.

I believe that the old covenant was not just to
Jews but was to all of us, because each time
it was mentioned or reitterated, its promise is
a Savior who would bless the whole earth. He
is here--arisen and glorified!

I believe that the old covenant is there to tell
us what sin is; the new is in the heart by the
Holy Spirit of our God, constantly prodding us
to do what is right. I believe that the Aaronic
priesthood, which was a physical and historical
(to us) demonstration of the priesthood to come,
and that our Lord is our High Priest now, and of
the order of Melchizedek--timeless.

I also believe that we are the first fruits of the
new covenant, but that the new covenant is not
in full swing yet. If it were in full swing, all of
Israel would have recognized Him as Messiah,
as promised to the dynasty of Israel in Jeremiah
31:33.

 

Hello, DHK. I could copy your post and write
all my answers to you, but we both know we
will disagree. 8o) So I won't for now. I believe
that our God works with each one of us, deal-
ing with us where we are. He knows your heart,
and He knows mine. That is good enough for
me.