Preterism v. God's Plan for our future

Preterism v. God's Plan for our future

What is God's Plan for various parts of
mankind as denoted in the Old Testament (OT)
and New Testament (NT)? Do a significant
portion of those plans include we who
are Christians right now or are we working on
other plans not specified in the Bible?


Here are some outlines of the time from
Pentacost to the end of this age, to the
end of future ages, to the end of the world.
Varius groups i've seen on this board
have various (yet similar) viewpoints of
what the Holy Bible says on this matter:

Pretrib pre-mill outline of time forward:

0. church age continues -- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib pre-mill outline:

0. church age continues -- you are here
2. Tribulation time
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

Postrib a-mill outline:

0. church age continues - is the same as: -- you are here
2. Tribulation time - is the same as: -- you are here
4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom -- you are here
1.3. Second Advent of Jesus event
(this is one event with the rapture/resurrection)
5. new heaven & new earth

Peterist a-trib a-mill outline:

0. church age continues --- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection -done happened
2. Tribulation time --- or maybe you are here
3. Second Advent of Jesus event -done happend
4. spiritual MK=millinnial kingdom -done happened
5. new heaven & new earth --- or maybe you are here

Which do you think is closes to the
way things are going to come down
(or already came down)?

Pretrib, post-trib, and a-trib refer
to the location in time of the rapture
of the saints relative to the Tribulation
Period.

Pre-mill, post-mill, and a-mill refer
to the location in time of the Second
Advent of the Lord to His Millinnial
Kingdom. I've never seen a post-mill post
in this fourm.

 

This is a similar post to one i made on
a Baptist only Forum. I repeat it largely
here. I'll respond to responces here
but not there.

I find these variation among various eschatologies:

1. The meaning of "Day" and "day" in 2 Peter 3:10

2 Peter 3:10 (HCSB):
But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief;
on that day the heavens will pass away with a loud noise,
the elements will burn and be dissolved,
and the earth and the works on it will be disclosed.


2. The meaning of "Day" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (HCSB)
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way.
For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes
first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.

3. The meaning of "apostasy" (HCSB) or "fall away" (KJV1769)
in 2 Thessalonians 2:3

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (HCSB)
Don't let anyone deceive you in any way.
For that day will not come unless the apostasy comes
first and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 (KJV1769):
Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first,
and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;


4. The meaning of "first" in Revelation 20:6

Revelation 20:6 (HCSB):
Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over these,
but they will be priests of God and the Messiah,
and they will reign with Him for 1,000 years.

5. The meaning of the first "and" in Matthew 24:31

Matthew 24:31 (HCSB):
He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet,
and they will gather His elect from the four winds,
from one end of the sky to the other.

Interesting, the HCSB doesn't translate the Greek KAI that
starts this verse???

Matthew 24:31 (KJV1769):
And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet,
and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds,
from one end of heaven to the other.

-Interesting, the difference between eschatologies
is the meaning of a few key words

 

These three questions?

In Matthew 24:3 the disciples of Jesus
ask three questions:

(in the order asked):
1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
2. What is the sign of His coming?
3. What is the sign of the end of age?

Jesus answers these questions in
Matthew 24:4-44, then follows them with
some parables.

Here are the answers of Jesus in the
order the questions were asked:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

Here is a summary of the answers
in the order in which events will occur:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Soon, it was in 70AD

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
No signs preceeding the end of the age

2. What is the sign of His coming?
The Sign of His coming will be the
Tribulation period.

Recall the Greek language in which this
Mount Olivet Discourse (MOD) was written
did not have Microsoft Word to do it with.
So many ands, buts, and other connectors
give the outline. I believe the major
outline to be:

1. When will the Temple be destroyed?
Matthew 24:4-14

2. What is the sign of His coming?
Matthew 24:15-30

3. What is the sign of the end of age?
Matthew 24:31-44

The Gathering in Matthew 24:31 is the
Rapture/resurrection which ends the
current church age (gentile age, age of grace,
last days, etc&gt

Thus Matthew 24:4-14 describes all of the
church age even up to this time.
Matthew 24:4-14 describes the church age.
The signs of Matthew 24:4-14 are signs
that the church age continues.

 

Whats wrong Ed? Is it to tough a question? Is the new Heavens and New Earth of Rev. the same as the ones found in II Peter3 and Is. 65 and 66? And how does it fit into your little chart?

Each place that "new Heavens and new Earth" appears
it referes to a physical reality, not a spiritual
reality. "new Heavens and new Earth"
is a Hebrew idiom refering to the physical realm.

(BTW "new heavens and new earth" and
"new heaven and new earth" have the same meaning.)

Is. chapters 65 and 67 refer to "new Heaven(s) and new Earth".

Isa 65:17 (HCSB):
"For I will create a new heaven and a new earth;
the past events will not be remembered or come to mind.

Isa 66:22 (HCSB):
"For just as the new heavens and the new earth,
which I will make,
will endure before Me"-the Lord's declaration-
"so will your offspring and your name endure.

Revelation 21:1-2 (HCSB):
Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth,
for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away,
and the sea existed no longer.
2 I also saw the Holy City, new Jerusalem,
coming down out of heaven from God,
prepared like a bride adorned for her husband.

Here is my outline of God's plan for time forward:

0. church age continues <-- you are here
1. rapture/resurrection
2. Tribulation time
3. Second Advent of Jesus event
4. literal MK=millinnial kingdom
5. new heaven & new earth

The new heaven & new earth here is the one in
Revelation 21:1-2.
I will need to study Isaiah and see if it is the
same new heaven & new earth.

 

Last days, last day, end time, end times word study
in KJV12769):

"Last days" references KJV (3-OT, 5 NT)

Ge 49:1 (KJV1769):
And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves
together, that I may tell you that which shall befall
you in the last days].

Isa 2:2 (KJV1769):
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Mic 4:1 (KJV1769):
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Ac 2:17 (KJV1769):
And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

2Ti 3:1 (KJV1769):
This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

Heb 1:2 (KJV1769):
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son,
whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Jas 5:3 (KJV1769):
Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.

2Pe 3:3 (KJV1769):
Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

"End time" and "end times" are NOT found in the KJV1769


-----
"Last day" in the KJV1769:

Click Verse for Commentary Notes

Ne 8:18 (KJV1769):
Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner.

Joh 6:39 (KJV1769):
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Joh 6:40 (KJV1769):
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:44 (KJV1769):
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:54 (KJV1769):
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 7:37 (KJV1769):
In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Joh 11:24 (KJV1769):
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

Joh 12:48 (KJV1769):
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

2 Thessalonians 1:4-7 (HCSB):

Therefore we ourselves boast about you among God's churches--about
your endurance and faith in all the persecutions and
afflictions you endure.
5 It is a clear evidence of God's righteous judgment that
you will be counted worthy of God's kingdom, for which
you also are suffering,
6 since it is righteous for God to repay with affliction
those who afflict you,
7 and to reward with rest you who are afflicted,
along with us. [This will take place] at the revelation
of the Lord Jesus from heaven with His powerful angels,

This is about the tribulation of suffering for being
a Christian. The last judgement for evil on this earth
is at the revelation of the Lord Jesus at the end
of the Tribulation period. Again, distinguish between
the Tribulation period and human travial type tribulation,
the condition. This does not contradict the
pretribulation rapture and pre-millinnial Second Coming.
It does contradict preteritism as nobody has seen a
physical Lord Jesus coming from heaven with His physical
powerful angels.

 

This statement was from
Grasshopper in another Baptist-Only Forum.

 

DeafPosttrib (elsewhere): "None mentioned on 'a thousand years'
find anywhere in the Old Testament speaking of Messiah
shall reign on earth in Jerusalem."

Isaiah 9:6-7 (HCSB)

For a child will be born for us,
a son will be given to us,
and the government will be on His shoulders.
He will be named
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Eternal Father, Prince of Peace.
7 The dominion will be vast,
and its prosperity will never end.
He will reign on the throne of David
and over his kingdom,
to establish and sustain it
with justice and righteousness from now on and forever.
The zeal of the Lord of Hosts will accomplish this

When will Jesus rule on the throne of David?

Isaiah 24:23 (HCSB)

The moon will be put to shame
and the sun disgraced,
because the Lord of Hosts will reign as king
on Mount Zion in Jerusalem,
and He will [display His] glory
in the presence of His elders.

Who is this Lord of Hosts? When will Jesus
rule in Jerusalem? Mount Zion refers to the
place where the Chikiniah (sp?) glory of God rests
(in the Temple).

Revelation 20:6 (HCSB):

Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection!
The second death has no power over these,
but they will be priests of God and the Messiah,
and they will reign with Him for 1,000 years.

Note "Him" refers to "God and the Messiah" and thus
means Jesus. Jesus will reign for 1,000 years.
Where will Jesus reign?
Upon whose throne shall Jesus reign?

Instant replay of the questions asked here:

When will Jesus rule on the throne of David?
When will Jesus rule in Jerusalem?
Where will Jesus reign?
Upon whose throne shall Jesus reign?

My answer to 2+3 here is = 5.
Jesus will rule on the physical throne of
David in physical Jerusalem through His Millinnial
Kingdom.

But i note that none of these verses say
DIRECTLY what I concluded. Howerver, they do add up
to what i said.