Did Judas drink damnation?

Ok, and "If Jesus be lifted up he will draw all men unto Him." I'm sorry if that doesn't sound familiar to you, but it is the Gospel.

Yes, and that is why when one becomes His sheep they now have that new nature that is oposed to the nature of being a goat. Before they were sheep of His pasture, they were not sheep at all.

Good thing the Bible isn't wriiten to buzzards, huh?

No, not really, it was their pride actually, and they chose their pride over humility by, get this now, CHOICE.

Excuse me? You're confusing the drawing power of the Holy Ghost with those who are come to Jesus and saved that cannot be taken out of His hand.

Well you are right about that!

Right, and they were inspired to think otherwise of themselves because of the convincing of that sin nature by the drawing power of the Holy Ghost.

You were too busy generalizing Jews and I thought I'd throw you a curve ball and you swung at it: STRIKE!

Of course, but it was his conscious choice to come to Jesus at night as to not be seen by the Jews who might have derided him otherwise.

And the Lord refuses no man light, even Judas was given light and he refused that Light

and all men are lost until they get found.

Uh-huh, and that by his consious choice, that which Calvinists decide for God that men cannot consciously choose and make a decision to receive or reject the promptings of the Holy Ghost.

Right, no one will stand in God's presence, they will prostrate themselves, and now you contradict yourself, willfully, by saying now they are capable of self-willed sins.

No, not funny at all, just human nature to attack what is best for them due to their ignorance and self-will.

Rom 9:18-32 –
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Salamander here, and He only hardens those who he has dealty with severely to the point they hardened their own hearts first. Pharoah is our example of that.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? me again, Those who serve the flesh and deny the Spirit
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Ah! Yes! they REPLY! and in total rebellion to the call of God to repentence!
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? Yes, but first they must be clay, that entails water and certain protozoa to maintain the consistency of clay, and that honour comes from obedience to the command of God and that hand of chatsisement forms the dishonourable vessel due to lusts of the flesh. God is dealing with His children here, not saved and lost.22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: and just who fitted them? Not God, he is not unrighteous, all His acts are righteous. Those fitted to wrath are the ones who are dead in tresspasses and sins and refuse Christ.
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Uh-huh, those who received His mercy
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? Yep
25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved. I do hope you caught that! they were NOT His people nor were they beloved/ "elect"26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God. Because they are now His children and then, not until then, are they the ELECT.
27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: yes!
28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth. he's coming soon!
29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha. The seed of hope found in Jesus, it's called the Gospel
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. and God hath given to every man the measure of faith to either excercise that fiath or reject it's recourse
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Of course not, no man is made righteous by the works of the law
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; Uh-huh, they had confidence in their hypocritical works and could not, neither those today who cannot, see that Jesus died in their stead as the Propitiation for their thier sin: they are ones who do not excercise that measure of faith.

Ok, so you do have a sword, but may I suggest the One that is sharper than ANY tw0-edged sword? The Bible!

Don't know anyone who can.

Yes, and man choses after that choice of God to save all that will call upon Him in the day they are convicted of their ungodliness

May I suggest you pick up God's Sword?

Moody are we? It would be unrighteous of God to allow men to be created without ever giving them the hope of salvation, but it is the man who denies himself that ample opportunity as it is that God hath lightened every man as to choose. It also would make God a tyrant to those who "could not be saved" due to His "choosing".

There is no rhetoric here, only sound biblical truht that God .

Hebrews 11:6But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


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Compared with

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Pro 7:15 Therefore came I forth to meet thee, diligently to seek thy face, and I have found thee.

It is man's diligence that rewards him with finding the Truth. IT IS THAT SEARCHING MAN DOES THAT BY FAITH (didn't mean to yell) Any man will find the truth of God if he will seek Him by faith, but first he must seek according to Truth.

After he's sought Him diligently, and by faith received the Truth of the Gospel, then he has found God seeking the man.

Jesus came to seek and to save that which is lost. All men are lost prior to salvation, and those who choose to remain lost will remain lost.

Diligence is the key that opens the lock of faith that opens the Door to salvation.

 

Your problem Calvi is that you cannot discern that God calls all men to repentence. All men are drawn. Jesus made emphatic Truth that because of the choices by men, that even though they are drawn, because He has been lift up, it is men who then choose.

Jesus is the Saviour of all men from their sins, not the Garden of Eden blocked by a flaming sword.

No man has natural ability to come to Jesus, but his nature is sinful and will not come until convinced he is a sinner, that is by his choice to reckon himself as such, though all have sinned.

It's called acknowledging God so that our paths may lead to repentence.

IF Jesus had said things to fit your dogma, this conversation wouldn't even be happening. But since Jesus said, "Except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish", he gave them the choice to see themselves as they really are.

Tell you what, you go with Calvin and I'll go with Jesus, ok?

 

Really? Garsh, I didn't know that! I thought it had to do with diligence in seeking something, I'm really sorry.

I said "compared with", not align with. See that's it, yall look at things with Calvinist blinders on.

Jesus also gave example of a woman diligently seeking her lost coin. Are you trying to tell us that God has to diligently seek the sinner as if He lost a coin under the boardwalk???

 

Kinda reminds me of a J Vernon McGee (sp?) show I heard once where he related a story about how someone's favorite verse was "And it came to pass". It was her favorite verse because she thought it meant that no matter how bad things are today, things will always come to pass. </font>[/QUOTE]God shall bring it to pass, unless you believe we'll suffer tribulation in Heaven???

 

Really? Garsh, I didn't know that! I thought it had to do with diligence in seeking something, I'm really sorry.

I said "compared with", not align with. See that's it, yall look at things with Calvinist blinders on.

Jesus also gave example of a woman diligently seeking her lost coin. Are you trying to tell us that God has to diligently seek the sinner as if He lost a coin under the boardwalk??? </font>[/QUOTE]Sal, I would have rather you chose a verse that actually talked about men seeking God (of which there are some) to prove your point. Instead, you pulled a verse completely out of context and then went on for three paragraphs talking about something the verse didn't say. That is poor pedagogy and even poorer hermeneutics. </font>[/QUOTE]Not really, but if you say so

I was asking you to compare the diligence of man in the will of God in seeking Him and the person totally out of the will of God seeking anything.

get it? COMPARE!

You wrote your understanding into what I was saying, but that is error on your behalf.

Every man has sought God in some degree, why even the most domgatic atheist has tried to prove the very person he doesn't believe in doesn't exist.

For one to never seek God? Not in efforts of righteousness, except to either receive His righteousness or try to establish their own.

You tout that no man has ever sought after God, but the promise still goes that any man that will diligently seek Him will find Him and be rewarded.

If you take Romans 3 in context, though it does apply to both sinner and saint, the sinner who is holding the creature above the Creator is the one who has not sought God.

 

Matthew 9:13 But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice.' For I did not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance."

Oops. I guess Jesus forgot the Father's desire to call all men to repentance. His comment was directed at the Pharisees who thought they were righteous. He did not come to call them to repentance. Salamander here. I think you contradicted yourself again when you compare what you just said with your last few statements

Funny that both John Calvin, and I, have said all of the things you just spoke of (although maybe they haven't come up on this board). All are commanded (that's the word your looking for from Acts 17:30) to repent. Without repentance all (everyone) will perish. I just preached on that passage last week from Luke 13 and gave a great free-will gospel presentation. Recognition of sinfulness is important. Calvinists are famous for using the Law to call men to account. Gee, Paul did that too. You obviously know nothing about Calvin or Calvinism.</font>[/QUOTE]You said the Pharisees weren't told to repent, then you say all men are commanded to repent, which is it?? I already know, it is all men everywhere.

 

But it does refer to eternal damnation when applied to the impenitent in Judas' circumstance as well as any impenitent who unworthily partakes and never repents and is never saved.

But what I answered hasn't much to do with the subject, except I was attacked by my brethren who hold to a false doctrine known as Calvinism.

 

So now you'll take other portions of Romans and only apply them to the believer, but when the Bible is clearly speaking to admonish believers about ONLY the state of the reprobate and soon to be reprobates, you subjectively change the Bible to fit your dogma.

Ok, so I'll walk back and forth on the ship going to China until I get there

But what about the ones seeking the Right God? You somehow forget about the ones who seek Him in Spirit and in Truth!

I didn't say either way. I dealt exclusively with only the one aspect of man seeking God leaving the other aspect of a sinful crerated being diligently seeking anything to make comparison. If the laying in wait to seduce diligently seeks the victim and ensnares him, then why wouldn't that apply directly to a man seeking God which is much better? Do you mean to tell me that God will allow the approach to sin have precedence over the apporach to Him??

The subject is about Judas and him drinking damnation. You have hijacked the thread into a C and A debate, of which I will have no part since both dogmas are in error.

I am dealing specifically with your thought process and trying to let you realise your error