Mel Gibson, The Passion of Jesus Christ, and Baptists

Theresa, I posted you some quotes on this thread, I listed links ot them because this thread is so long.

http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/28/2484/7.html?


http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi/topic/28/2484/8.html?

 

Remember, I said that it was my belief. And I do believe that it is bringing believers closer to Him (maybe not all believers, but many).

If they believe otherwise, I won't try to make them believe otherwise.

 

frozen said

I have news for you - if you communicate with "Dead spirits today" that is necromancy.

Ask any pagan spiritists - communicating with dead spirits "IS the game" not looking up old corpses and talking to them.

How could you be so in the dark on this one?

In Christ,

Bob

 

Okay, then what was this "paradise" that Christ led the saved spirits from? It couldn't be heaven
</font>[/QUOTE]#1. The text does not say they were led "From Paradise" - the one quoting the text simply inserts that word. It is not there.

#2. The text says that they are Captives. The Bible never views "paradise" as Captivity.

Notice that in Rev 2 paradise is the place where God's tree of life is.

In 2Cor 11 we do not find Paradise listed as a place of Captivity.

There is no such thing as "Christ leading the saints out of paradise" in all of scripture.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Frozencell, don't let these guys pull one over on you. It's a common ploy on this board to try to redefine words so as to use the new definition against another.

Necromancy is a mode of divination by the evocation of the dead.

Divination is the seeking after knowledge of future or hidden things by inadequate means.

In other words, necromancy is seeking knowledge of the future or hidden things by evoking the dead.

Prayers to Saints and Angels asking for their intercessory prayers is none of that.

Some on this board allow their hate and bigotry to rule them. Ignore it. That's what I have learned to do.

Ron

 

And what did Saul do?
"Prayers to Saints and Angels asking for their intercessory prayers is none of that."

He prayed TO Samuel ASKING for his intercession. It was the exact thing that God had condemned. It was the exact thing that He had previously put witches to death beforetime, when he was right with God. It is the exact thing that Catholics call prayer today.
DHK

 

DHK, you ask what did Saul do?

Saul said to her, "Tell my fortune through a ghost; conjure up for me the one I ask you to."

Saul didn't ask Samuel to pray to God for Him.

Saul asked Samuel "What should I do?"

Catholics don't pray to Mary or any other Saint and expect that Saint to answer them with advice or secrets about the future.

You just want others to believe that we do.

False witness?

 

You know better than that, and the false witness is all yours for trying to lead people astray by lying about your own religion.

Hail Mary full of Grace, the Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women, and Blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, mother of God PRAY for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death, Amen.

Don't lie, and bear false witness. This is not intercession to God. It is a direct prayer to Mary. God is not even mentioned. You pray: "PRAY FOR US SINNERS NOW"

You don't ask Mary to interede on behalf of God for you. That is a lie. You go straight to Mary and pray that Mary would intercede on your behalf.
False witness? I think so--on your part.
DHK

 

DHK, how in the world can you claim to have the one and only correct and infallible interpretation of Scripture, when you seem to have such a poor grasp of simple English?

"PRAY FOR US SINNERS NOW"

This is asking Mary to pray to God for us, on our behalf.

Your last post makes such little sense that I can't even begin to guess what you are thinking.

As I said before,"... necromancy is seeking knowledge of the future or hidden things by evoking the dead.

Prayers to Saints and Angels asking for their intercessory prayers is none of that."

It appears that your hatred of Catholics renders you incapable of rational thought.

Take a deep breath. Count to ten. Whatever it takes to get a grip, man!

 

DHK Wrote:

Jesus is mentioned. Is he not God?

In the "Hail Mary" we ask her to pray to God for us. We ask her to ask Jesus to grant us his grace.

I don't see anything in the "Hail Mary" that would sudgest that we are asking anything other than prayer from Mary. Don't you ask people to pray for you? If they do are they not intercieding on your behalf?

Half the prayer quotes the bible. Whats wrong with that? You should step back a bit and really look at the "Hail Mary" and really look at what we are asking before making false statements about it

WE ask her to pray for us.

God Bless You

John

 

1 Samuel 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.

Saul asked Samuel to make known what he should do.
There is not a whole lot of difference.
You pray to Mary.
Saul prayed to Samuel.

Samuel was dead.
Mary is dead.

Both are condemned by the Bible.
DHK

 

Lord, have mercy on us all!

Samuel was dead - yes in a sense. I guess this is what is referred to as soul sleep. Before the resurrection of our Lord and Savior we know that those who died believing in God were not in heaven.

Mary is dead - not in the same sense. Mary and everyone who is currently in Heaven is very much alive. Our life does not end when the body dies.

Saul is asking Samuel what he should do. We know that when we summon up the spirits we are contacting false spirits.

When we recite the Hail Mary, we are not summoning up her spirit nor are we asking her for advice about what we should do.

When we pray the rosary (or better word meditate on the mysteries of the rosary), stations of the cross, ect. we begin with Our Father

 

I understand the point T2U and others are trying to make. I see the difference between the Samuel and Mary example (asking for direct information vs. a request for prayer). I must admit, for those who condemn Catholics who ask Mary to pray for them on the basis they can go directly to God, those people need to never ask anyone alive on earth to pray for them again, because they can go directly to God. You need to be consistent. However, I do not see this practiced. They are inconsistent, condemning others who request prayer from people they see just as much alive as we can see the person beside us is alive. I do not have the problem I once had with this subject now that I understand what the Catholic really thinks, not what I think he thinks.

In Christ,
Neal

 

Bless you brother Neal!

I appreciate your statement of, "now that I understand what the Catholic really thinks, not what I think he thinks."

In Christian Peace,
Lucinda

 

Necromancy is the attempt to communicate with the dead.

It does not matter "which dead" you seek - it is still necromancy. NT dead, OT dead -- all the same thing -- necromancy.

It does not matter "how many things the dead person does" or does not do -- it is still necromancy.

Communicating with the dead is condemned by God and for good reason. By doing so - you communicate with demons not saints, not old friends, not old family.

In Christ,

Bob

 

I thought that necromancy was having sex with a corpse?

 

And upon doing a quick search on-line I see that I was wrong.

Thank you BobRyan for providing the truth on the matter.


Jim

 

Mary is just as dead as Samuel is.
James says: "For as the body without the spirit is dead..."

When you die, your dead. That is a profound statement isn't it? The reason that Jesus isn't dead is that He rose from the dead. Mary didn't rise from the dead; only Jesus accomplished that feat. Jesus lives; Mary doesn't. Mary, like the rest of us sinners, has to wait for the resurrection. She has no special place among the rest of sinful humanity. Her body is still dead and in the grave (the heretical Catholic doctrine of the assumption of Mary, not withstanding).
And understand it well--it is wrong to pray to the dead!
DHK

 

What specific Scriptures forbid asking a Saint in Heaven to pray for me?

Chapter and verse please.