Question for free willers

Npetreley has rejected every answer anybody has given him since this thread began.He has however given us a list in several places of what he will accept as valid answers.If we don't use one of his valid answers he will respond by referring to anybody who attempts to respond as being either evasive or stupid.Of course anybody can see he is attempting to force us in a little box he wants to create and then he will go "AHA" so we calvinists have been right all along because I stuck to my guns until you gave me the answer I demmanded, see how smart I am.To get angry and call him a denigrating name would be a kindness.

 

I just got home from Church and was treated to an old time Baptist dinner. Chicken dumplings, potatoes, yams, corn bread, eggs, lettuce and onions so I am not in the mood to fool with you anymore. I have found there are much better things to do in life than to try to answer a no-brainer.

 

I'm beginning to think you're incapable of carrying on an honest intellectual discussion with brothers and sisters in Christ without (a) denigrating them or (b) completely misunderstanding the issues at play. For the former reason this is my last post in response to anything you have to say. </font>[/QUOTE]He is very close to my ignore list (# now 0) as well.

 

You and I are on the same page here Bill. My thoughts exactly. The pride of so-called knowledge displayed by these, as well as all of the intellectual elite (better known as Calvinists) that I have met, reminds me of the Gnostics of the early church.

They had a special knowledge of God too. Or so it seemed to them anyway.

 

How Calvinism is first taught in deaf schools:

Calvinism explained in one word kids

 

"When" indicates a point in time. "Then" also indicates a point in time. So God did not know us until "we answered His 'call'". </font>[/QUOTE]You got it J.D., and you are seeing the dispensations. It is as His Word says, I have “free will”, and I believe I am predestined as I said in the beginning. When did this happen? Just as you say, Quote "When" indicates a point in time. "Then" also indicates a point in time. So God did not know us until "we answered His 'call'", Unquote. You just described the “dispensation we live in”.

Christian faith, ituttut </font>[/QUOTE]Was there a beginning of time, and if so, what existed before time?

Are you an open theist? Do you know what that means?

Are the decrees of God in eternity contingent upon the events of time, or are the events of time the results of the eternal decrees of God?

J.D.
God's Puppet/Robot </font>[/QUOTE]I really appreciate your coming down to my level J.D. I'm so very thankful your took notice of we that depend on the Word for our knowledge.

Let’s put it this way my friend. I know one when I see one. And I know those that refuse the gospel of Paul, will begin to label those in the Body of Christ with ungodly names, and change meanings of words spoken.

You refuse to acknowledge you saw for a fleeting moment our “dispensation”, and change to fit something you have no knowledge of.

I will answer your question in a couple of ways, but I wish you had answered in the “time frame" you posed your question, and in time I answered you. Perhaps as you seem to believe you understand “eternity”, you’ve forgotten you are living in time, and it is God’s time, and in your “dispensational” time is time you must deal with. When you understand that, then you will accept the fact we will in eternity be with Him. If there is “time” it will be unending, and if there is not time, we will understand it is “eternity” without time. We will be put into that “dispensation” of God.

I’ll respond in two ways to one of such profound knowledge.

God is, and we exist in Him. I have faith in that.

When you come down of Mars’ Hill, turn to Ephesians 3:1-8, ”For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2. If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3. How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4. Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5. which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6. That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7. Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ”.

Once you will acknowledge that Christ tells you the “now” began at Damascus Road, and you accept that is when the Body of Christ “dispensation” begins, you will see this transcends “all time”. We are with Him as He Is. This looks to be “out of sight” of time to me.

Christian faith, ituttut

 

Wow! We that have "have often walked on that street before" know this. If only others could "grow up" and see how high they could go.

Christian faith, ituttut

 

I'm here, but off and on. Lot's of "honey do's" and what not. I try to fit this time of "refreshing" after the wife is asleep, or at church, or book club, and you name it.

Then sometimes I get into too many interesting "other conversations" on this or other "boards".

Christian faith, ituttut

 

"When" indicates a point in time. "Then" also indicates a point in time. So God did not know us until "we answered His 'call'". </font>[/QUOTE]You got it J.D., and you are seeing the dispensations. It is as His Word says, I have “free will”, and I believe I am predestined as I said in the beginning. When did this happen? Just as you say, Quote "When" indicates a point in time. "Then" also indicates a point in time. So God did not know us until "we answered His 'call'", Unquote. You just described the “dispensation we live in”.

Christian faith, ituttut </font>[/QUOTE]Was there a beginning of time, and if so, what existed before time?

Are you an open theist? Do you know what that means?

Are the decrees of God in eternity contingent upon the events of time, or are the events of time the results of the eternal decrees of God?

J.D.
God's Puppet/Robot </font>[/QUOTE]I really appreciate your coming down to my level J.D. I'm so very thankful your took notice of we that depend on the Word for our knowledge.

Let’s put it this way my friend. I know one when I see one. And I know those that refuse the gospel of Paul, will begin to label those in the Body of Christ with ungodly names, and change meanings of words spoken.

You refuse to acknowledge you saw for a fleeting moment our “dispensation”, and change to fit something you have no knowledge of.

I will answer your question in a couple of ways, but I wish you had answered in the “time frame" you posed your question, and in time I answered you. Perhaps as you seem to believe you understand “eternity”, you’ve forgotten you are living in time, and it is God’s time, and in your “dispensational” time is time you must deal with. When you understand that, then you will accept the fact we will in eternity be with Him. If there is “time” it will be unending, and if there is not time, we will understand it is “eternity” without time. We will be put into that “dispensation” of God.

I’ll respond in two ways to one of such profound knowledge.

God is, and we exist in Him. I have faith in that.

When you come down of Mars’ Hill, turn to Ephesians 3:1-8, ”For this cause I Paul, the prisoner of Jesus Christ for you Gentiles, 2. If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward: 3. How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4. Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) 5. which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; 6. That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: 7. Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power. 8. Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ”.

Once you will acknowledge that Christ tells you the “now” began at Damascus Road, and you accept that is when the Body of Christ “dispensation” begins, you will see this transcends “all time”. We are with Him as He Is. This looks to be “out of sight” of time to me.

Christian faith, ituttut </font>[/QUOTE]ituttut, I didn't understand that post. No need to reply, though, I'm done with it. Apparently you interpret my questions as condescending and provocative. So forget it. Maybe I need to brush up on my on-line etiquette.

 

You've sprayed us again with your drive-by theological bullets. You need to do something with that hatred brother.

 

I understand your position, and will abide by your wishes to drop the subject. Consider it forgotten in this setting.

Christian faith, ituttut

 

You've sprayed us again with your drive-by theological bullets. You need to do something with that hatred brother. </font>[/QUOTE]Actually it was a bit of humor. But you will notice that I wrote "Calvinism", not "Calvinists".

Besides, I'm allowed to hate Calvinism. The Bible says so.

"Therefore I esteem all thy precepts concerning all things to be right; and I hate every false way." Ps. 119:128

Besides, isn't that what Calvin was saying? Hey everybody I'm special and you aren't. Christ died for me but not for you! (Limited Atonement)

And He chose me for no reason for all and not you! If fact He will never chose you even if you begged Him! I'm special! (sibling rivalry taken to the heights via unconditional election)

And I'm much more intellectual than you. You know when I first got saved I was Arminian concerning election, but when I got smart I became a Calvinist! (I actually heard this from a brother in so many words at my last church)

The photo fits quite nicely thank you.

And besides, didn't you just write this on another thread?:

"What? I can't rant every now and then? O.K. I'm a hot-head. I'll take another look at what I said and either take it back or support it. Later, no time now."

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/3/3646/4.html

Physican heal thyself.

 

Men have free will. They can FREELY CHOSE to do X, Y, or Z.

But men are ALSO LIMITED by their INFORMATION. Clearly, if you do not KNOW of option AA, you will not CHOOSE option AA, and will only choose from among X, Y, and Z.

This is how the Snake thinks. The Snake tries to MARKET, if you will, its satanism. It will TRUMPET options IT wants you to think about (X, Y, Z) and will downplay and de-emphasize options it does NOT want you to ponder (AA).

Therefore, IF all men could be shown the TRUE POWER of ALMIGHTY GOD, both THROUGHOUT HISTORY, and IN THEIR OWN LIVES...

they would "get it" and would freely choose to Believe.

BUT...

much as it is written, "the Snake is slier than all the beasts of the field", the Snake is the ULTIMATE CON-MAN...

and the Snake plots and schemes and plans and pans its lies...

and poof! the world is full of lies and deceipt, and GODLINESS is misconstrued, attributed to other things, and WRONG is trumpeted and even attributed to GOD ALMIGHT (!!)...

and so men, razzle-dazzled by the Snake's charms, get DUPED and the CHOOSE -- rationally to their own minds, with their own skewed and biased information base -- X, Y, or Z... and skip right over AA...

and the Snake laughs at them (just not right in their face).

And see the Snake's leg-up in this fight? "Wide is the way, and broad the gate that leads to death" (Matt 7:13). That is, you can do WHATEVER THE BLOODY #### -- X, Y, or Z -- and the Snake still wins! For "narrow is the way, and straight (=strict/constricted) is the gate that leads unto Life" (Matt 7:14). You only hold steadfast to GOD if you choose AA.

See? So, if you just pick any old thing at random, you are statistically overwhelmingly likely to displease God and stray into sin. ONLY if you walk the razor's edge, hurdle the high bar, and jump through the narrow hoop, do you actually truly really not just in your mind or in your Rhetoric but really actually actuallyt truly serve God and please him.

It's like a car engine -- it really only works right when it ALL works right. Even one small monkey wrench in the works ANYWHERE and bam! you're down and in the shop.

That's the Snake's leg-up. (coil up?) The Snake can get you to do WHATEVER, it doesn't really even matter, as long as it's not STRAIGHT AND TRUE, you default into the Snake's camp.

So, some men get pushed hard at some point in their lives and call upon 'Our Dad in the Heavens' and it becomes clear for them, GOD IS, GOD LIVES, GOD IS HERE AND NOW. But others are still under the thralldom of the Snake, swayed by its cunning lies, and trapped in their unknowingness and cluelessness... and they "don't get it" and keep on living in La-La-Land, and will do so, until something -- either an "Act of God", or hopefully their own fellow men first -- snaps them out of it, and clues them in, and shows them, in a way that truly makes sense to THEM, just how GOD IS, HERE and NOW, IN HISTORY, in OUR LIVES... "for those with eyes to see, and ears to hear", for those who "know what to look for", as it were.

Men have FREE WILL from GOD.

Men do NOT HAVE "ALL-KNOWING-NESS" (Omniscience) from God, however -- only ALMIGHTY GOD can handle that much data.

And so the Snake EXPLOITS our LIMITED AWARENESS -- the Snake "mind hacks" you, tricks you, makes you THINK you know it all, and then boom! of course you'll Freely Choose, from YOUR LIMITED POINT OF VIEW, to do whatever sneaky thing the Snake tells you to.

But it darn sure WON'T be "straight and narrow".

But, like Eve and Adam, you'll THINK IT IS...

until your sin festers enough to undermine YOU to such a degree that YOU TOO become weak, and call upon 'Our Dad in the Heavens'. The wages of sin are ALWAYS (ultimately) DEATH (Romans 6:23)... EVENTUALLY, at the END OF THE DAY, your sins will catch up with you, and you'll start getting YOUR ass kicked... at which point, you either are KIA, or you call upon 'Our Dad in the Heavens' -- you'll get to Freely Choose, pick one.

It's a true statement. FACT. NEVER been proven wrong, never will be. You don't get to complain about Gravity. Nor Electro-magnetism. Nor the Weak-Force. Nor the Strong-Force. You get to EAT THOSE -- God made those rules, you will obey them, PERIOD.

And the wages of sin = death is ANOTHER "Natural Law". It IS true.

But, praise God, men have ALLOT of STRENGTH, and sometimes it takes your sin a while to rattle through the system until it metastasizes enough for you to grock what you've done to yourself. IN THE MEANTIME -- and ONLY in the meantime -- you get to doubt and laugh and claim it's not true.

IE, you're in La-La-Land, laughing like a cow in the truck on the road to the slaughter-house.

You'll call on 'Our Father in Heaven', one way or another, sooner or later. Or not. Then you get to CHOOSE to DIE. Have fun!

But you ARE responsible for your choices.

And if you EVER choose ought else besides GOD, you have ALREADY BEEN DUPED by the Snake -- not only do you doubt ALMIGHTY GOD, but the SNAKE TOO!

"The Snake is slier than A-L-L the beasts of the field..."

You have 2 choices in this world: Worship Almighty GOD (openly)...

or the Snake (by ANY way)...

that's the extent of your options, however. Pick one, have fun, claim you know it all, enjoy those pleasure chemicals in your pleasure centers while they last. They won't. WATCH.

One way, or another, sinners and their seed will suffer for their sins. GOD is NOT trumped by the pidley Snake -- no, no, not really, that's only the SNAKE pillow-talking you, and what do you EXPECT him to say??

But the difference between BELIEVERS and UN-BELIEVERS is not FREE WILL (which they both have), it's KNOWLEDGE and INFORMATION, presented in a way that's meaningful for THEM. Some men come to know God, come to know their own mortality and limitations and call upon 'Our Dad in the Heavens' for help...

others are still living in La-La-Land, clueless, but clueless of their own cluelessness.

So, in the War between the Sons of Light and the Snake's beasts... the battlefield is NOT FREE WILL... but INFORMATION, KNOWLEDGE, presented in a MEANINGFUL WAY that truly cuts THROUGH to folks and gets them to grock the Truth.


And, for example, in point of FACT, PROOF of GOD and GOD's WORD should require looking no further than AMERICA.

According to the History Channel, there are over 4 million card-carrying members of Satanic organizations in America (Anton LeVay's Church of Satan, Michael Aquino's Temple of Set, etc). Similarly, QUEERS and HOMOS have more pull in America than law-abiding citizens... 40 million babies murdered... rampant Ishtar-style pagan sexuality...

AND...

America is a WEAK country -- we haven't WON a war in over 60 years, we can't even WIN against HALVES of THIRD WORLD NATIONS (NORTH Korea, NORTH Vietnam) even when we OCCUPY them (Iraq -- which, if you want to get technical, is only HALF of Syria-Iraq which is jointly ruled by the same Marxist Ba'ath party, yes really)...

and we're about to LOSE the whole of the AMERICAN SOUTH WEST...

I mean, folks, OPEN YOUR BLOODY EYES! LOOK! Did America ever LOSE a fight before all this Cold War era counter-culture sprung up?? HELL NO!! GET A BLOODY CLUE FOLKS!! When we were anchored in our GOD FEARING PURITAN ROOTS, we KICKED ASS!!!

Now we're literally a bunch of queer half-men who can't win a single damned war ever. And our enemies know it. And they are STEALING OUR LANDS!!

If I could just count on bipedal homonids to actually evidence the "sapiens", ie, the "thinking", half of their supposed Genus-Species Homo Sapiens...

People would wise up and get a damned clue.

But in America today, we are neither really men (homo), nor do we think much (sapiens), we're really just unmanly TV watchers, and nobody says, Ahhhh, yes, Puritans WIN their Wars... satan worshipping homo queer Ishtar sex cults DON'T... Ahhh, yes, it's quite clear, Watson!

But, no, that's too hard. Oh well. NOT GOD'S FAULT.

But it is YOUR (Our) FAULT, for participating in, and TOLERATING it. My point is, it SHOULD BE CLEAR -- if people just THOUGHT.

But we don't.

And so, in our ever dwindling information bases, ever constricting from laziness and sloth and refusal to just open our eyes and learn history and pay attention and keep our eyes on the ball and say, Wow! The Puritans, like CROMWELL, kicked ass hard core! And SF faggots don't... hmmm.... who would I rather be???

Folks don't do that. Wonder why, but they don't. It's too hard. Their KNOWLEDGE of history is limited.

And they make DARN POOR CHOICES.

But they do it FREELY.

FREE WILL is not the battle ground.

KNOWLEDGE IS.

INFORMATION separates Believers from unBelievers.

 

You don't really believe any of this, do you?

 

Bismarck , you really need to be more concise . I can not follow your long-winded excursions .

 

I think you've done a good job of proving this, anyway.

"He that hath not enough information is condemned already, because nobody gave him enough information" (Hez. 3:17)