James 2:14

Do you have a web page? And how can I see your show?

 

Oneness:
I do not have a web page. In fact, If it were not for the many people who do not know what the Bible says on spiritual matters, I would not be on T.V. I prefer to lead a quiet life without encouraging controvery or persecution. This is the same motivation I have in posting here and a few other boards. However, by broadcsting the gospel people have the opportunity to study and examine the subjects in light of the Bible without pressure or influence from others. If you are interested in viewinbg the program ,it airs on T.V. 33 out of LaGrange, Ga. at 4:30 P.M. each Sunday.

Our Topic this week is the Millenial reign of Christ. Since it is in a viewing area of only 125,000 people ,you may not be able to view it. However, I would be happy to send you a copy of any of the programs by way of vhs. You may contact me by e-mail if you would like. I do not want to invade your privacy by requesting you post your address but will discuss this matter in more detail privately.
I appreciate your interest.Have a good day.

 

Hi Frank,

If you agree about extrabilical writings why do you use them to make your positions.

Because these writings, which reflect the life of the early Church, base their theology off of Scripture, which is their norm. We are 20 centuries separated from the Scriptures; the authors of these texts were not. So, it would seem more than reasonable to take into account their interpretations.

Why have the Catachism and the papla bulls.

You mean the Catechism and papal bulls? Well, the catechism teaches doctrine systematically beginning with the deposit of faith, moving into the sacraments, then explaining Gospel morality, and finally ending with the life of Christian prayer. The Bible is not a Catechism, so we need a Catechism for Catechists.

Papal bulls are statements by the vicarious head of the household of God made to help guide the household in the day-to-day affairs of Christian life.

Now as i said, if you claim theyare inspired of God,Prove by the divine recird and credentials givenas PROOF of this power.

Only the Scriptures are inspired; we agree.

There is no lack of authority. Jesus has all of it. Mat. 28;18-20.

And Jesus gave it.

Jesus said one could know the truth. John 8:32. You are debating christ over what he said I could do.

I don't see "Frank" in John 8.

Again , if you do not believe extrabiblical writings have authorityfor dcotrine or practice why use them to make your case.

Cf. above.

men maybe right but also may be worng.

Like you perhaps?

The inspired message and messenger was always right.

Both still are.

You are being inconsistent with your first statement and thus flaws your hemeneutical principle.

These are big words, but they don't capture much meaning.

I am a product of the gospel of Jesus Christ and a child of God. I ama Christian as per Isaiah 62;2 and acts 11:26, no more no less. Yuo have once agaoin made an unsubstantiated assertionwithout any evidence whatsoever.

You mean my "assertion" that you are a child of the Reformation? Well, Frank, you're the one is is poorly read in history. How am I to convince someone ignorant of Christian history that something in history is true when they are unable and unwilling even to inform themselves? It's impossible, so why even continue speaking with you?

You site secular history that does chronicle denominatioanlism, but not pristine New Testament Chrisitianity which I practice.

You mean "cite"?

My friedn that may only be found in the last will and testament of Christ.Hebrews 10:15-17.

The last will and testament that you received from the Catholic Church?

You can search your history books and all the other writngs you wish to study today, tomorrow, for a thousand years with the mind of einstein and you will never frind Christianity in any book other tahtn the Gospel of Christ.

the Gospel of Christ - as interpreted by Frank, of course.

If you are claiming I am a denominationalist or protestant. Prove it!

If you are claiming that I am a Catholic, prove it!

Icall you a Catholic because that is waht you claim to be.

Just because I claim it doesn't make it true. Just because you claim that you're not a Protestant doesn't make your claim true.

I have claimed only to be a Christian, no more no less and you seem to have difficulty with the concept.

No, I acknowledge that you are a Christian. I further acknowledge that you reside in a particular tradition of Christianity whether you are honest enough to acknowledge it or not.

You have been reading to many extra biblical opinions from those who could not spell Christian, much less be able to find it in the New Testament. I Pet. 4: 16, Acts 11:26;26:28.

Frank, if I were you, I wouldn't be criticizing other individuals' spelling talents. There is an edit button on this board.

I do not preach opinion.

Of course you do. You preach interpretation. And your interpretation is your opinion.

I leave that up to the ist and isms of the world. I preach only those things authorized by the Lord Jesus Christ. Mat. 28;18-20.

You mean.. only those things as interpreted by Frank.

Carson, you have asserted otherwise. PROVE IT!

No.. you PROVE IT! PROVE IT, PROVE IT, PROVE IT! Are we getting anywhere here?

I assure you I can preach and teach only those truths as God would have me too. It amazes me that you would say a foolish thing like "I think I am God's mouthpiece" as that is precisely what God demands from all preachers or ministers.

You mean, authorized preachers. You, Frank, are not authorized. The Son of Man has been given all authority on heaven and earth and he has passed this authority on to his Church, and you are not a minister of his Church.

You should spend more time with the word of God and less listening to the unsubstantiated opinions of men. As the ole preacher once said if there ain't no scripture fer it I do not preach it!

I wonder how Christians for the first two decades of Christianity preached salvation by faith, the Paschal mystery, the Trinity, etc. without one iota of the New Testament ever having been penned.

And I have not preached my opinion cause there ain't no scripture fer it. If you think, as you say my, paridigm is wrong. Prove It! I Thes. 5: 21.

No.. YOU PROVE IT!

God bless,

Carson

 

Carson:
You are truly amazing. On the one hand, you say one builds his spiritual house on sinking sand if he is not grounded on the truth. In other words, a faith that is substantiated by evidence. Then, on the other hand, you label me something you could not prove from the divine record if your life depended on it. In fact, you have offered no divine evidence to support refute anything I have posted ... NONE!
Furthermore, John 8:32 was written to you as well as all men. I had hoped for a more mature response than given ,however, the static standard of truth is not high on the Catholic list of priorities.You just do not believe men can know the truth without the magisterium and the pope. If you say that I am wrong on this, then, you do not adhere to the Catholic teaching on the interpretation of the Cathoic church as the authority for the deposit of faith. In fact, in Vatican II, this position is to be adhered too. It is not optional. SEE I do read uninspired extra biblical writings.

Carson, which is it, Magisterium,History, Pope and Bible or is it the all sufficient New Testament of Christ? Which one do you build your house of faith on the sand or the rock foundation I Cor. 3:11?

Moreover, your statement that Christ has delivered authority is a direct contradiction to Mat. 28:18-20. You have made another assumption you cannot prove from the divine volume.
I have proved by the totality of evidence from the Bible every position I have proclaimed. You just do not like it. If I were Catholic, I would not like I Tim 3:2, I Tim 3:1-11, Titus 1:4-9, I tim. 4;2,3, and Mat. 23: 8,9 and many other such false teachings. I just proved one thing to the rational mind. The Cathoic church teaches and practices false doctrine. If not, refute with the pages of inspiration!
Finally, as a Christian, not as a Catholic, I say what the Bible says. 1. Jesus has all authority. Mat. 28;18-20. 2. Bishops must be married. I Tim. 3:2, Bishops must have believing children I Tim. 3:4. 3. God allows marriage for all men and women
who have the scriptural right to do so. Gen. 2:24, Mat. 19;9. 4. Men are not to be glorified or set apart by using names such as father,rev. etc. Mat. 23:8,9,. I say these things as a Christian, not as a Catholic, of which you cannot read in the New Testament.
Moreover, God authorizes all men to speak as he would have them to,not as the magisterium, or Tertullian or Augustine but as by the authority of Christ. Col 3:17,I Pet. 4:11.
I am aware of some of the work of Mr. Hahn. He facilitated to a degree the embarassing performance of David Callam in a debate with the gospel preacher David Brown over the authority of the New Testament.This may be viewed at oabs.org. In fact, it was so embarassing that a fine Catholic gentlemen stormed out of the building yelling this toward Mr. Brown," You are condeming us all to hell!"
Fianlly, the program "Let the Bible Speak" airs on T. V. 33 out of LaGrange, Ga. It airs at 4:30 P. M. on Sunday. It is on the local Charter cable here. It may be viewed by a potential audience of 125,000 people.
As I said, I do not preach my opinion, in fact, I have signed an open proposition on " The Bible Teaches that Water Baptism is Essential to the Salvation of the Sinner." I have signed my name to the affirmation. As of yet, I have no takers on the denial. I am still hoping some preacher in our area will be willing to take the denial and also affirm the faith only position. I have approached two such and churches to no avail . I believe you would say I was refused an audience with them.
You challanged me to prove my statements. I have provided Bible for everyone of them. If you wish, you can do the same honorable thing and do like wise. However, I realize that will not happen on several fronts. See above false teachings and scriptures for PROOF!
Oh, and by the way, I realize I do not keyboard well at times. I also realize there is an edit button. Thanks,for the reminder! There is also a New Testament available for you to study and understand the complete revelation of Christ to man. I imagine you will steer clear of that concept as well as the others posted from the divine volume. Of course, if I were Catholic, or many other denominationalists, I would avoid the subject, too!
Have a good evening.

 

Frank,

Your church has bishops?

God bless,

Grant

 

I wonder if it has eunuchs (Matthew 19:12) as well?

 

Grant:
The church of the New Testament has a plurality of mature men in the faith who serve as bishops overseers, shepherds, elders. The divine requirements for this area of service are found in I Tim. 3:1-11, Titus 1:5-9, I Peter 5:1-5. The short answer to your question is yes.

 

I'm aware of what's in the New Testament. How about in your church. Could you name a bishop in your body of believers? Or a deacon?

God bless,

Grant

 

Or one who has taken the vow of celibacy in order to tend to Christ's Bride as Jesus speaks of in Matthew 19? (these are what eunuchs were - celibate men who took care of the King's concubines - they could be trusted because they were unable to have relations with the King's women - and so Jesus says such men shall be at the service of the Kingdom)

 

Grant:
Yes, I can. There are three men who serve as elders at the congregation of which I am a part. The congregation is the Bartley Road church of Christ in LaGrange Ga. The adresss is 1638 Bartley Rd. LaGrange Ga. 30240.
Why are there names so important? I do not normally provide personal info about people without their permission. If you would like to contact me privately about this matter, I will be more than happy to discuss it.

 

Carson:
I have not taken a survey of men who have been put away because they violated the marriage bed. Hebrews 13:4, Mat. 19:1-9. However, if there is one who finds himself in that situation, The Lord requires he being guilty of immorality must remain sexually in active and therefore not marry again. He thusly would in effect become a eunoch in order to get into heaven. I forgot one other thing in my post about hermeneutics. Passages must always be interpreted in their context. In Mat. 19:1-9, Jesus is questioned about divorce. He provides the answer and the ramifications of his teachings.Mat. 19:11,12. Carson, surely, those you hold in so high of esteem have taught you this principle. Have a good day.

 

The Bible calls these people bishops, and they are distinguished from ministers, deacons, and presbyrters. You said you had bishops. Now you say you have elders. You're beating around the bush. You tell us our bishops don't follow the rules, and yet you don't even have Bishops.

God bless,

Grant

 

Frank... huh?

 

Tuor,

This verse of scripture refers to a BARE profession of faith, not to true and living faith which produces good works. This is saying that faith which is dead in itself is no faith at all, but an empty profession.
The sense in which works justify the believer is in the DEMONSTRATIVE sense not the PROCURATIVE sense.
********************
JUSTIFICATION
The GROUND of it -- Christ's Righteousness
(Romans 3:24-26)
The MEANS of it -- Faith
(Romans 5:1;4:5)
The EVIDENCE of it -- Good works
(James 2:24)
Excerpt taken from "The Restoration Movement" by Bob L. Ross
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

No I don’t believe that type of ‘faith’ can save him.

In Christ,
Bobby

[ October 23, 2002, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: BeeBee ]

 

Grant:
Bishops,elders,shepherds,pastors are one and the same. Just get a lexicon and look up the meaning of the words. Deacon is a servant and is, indeed, different from the pastords, bishops, overseers,elders or pastors. You can actually just study the context and comprehend this. I Tim 3:1-11 is clear as is Titus 1:4-9. I mean being married, having children in subjection and one wife is as simple as one could make it.
Of course yo do not like it. But, it will read the same today,tomorrow and a thousand years as it does at this present momment. Grant, there is nothing you can do to change what God has commanded. I believe it and practice it. You do not believe it or practice it.

 

Carson:
That seems to be your attitude about the New Testament of Christ. HUH? If you did not understand the response from the same text, I guess you had someone else write your last post about men who have made themselves eunoch's. Please, direct me to the one who actually asked the question. Hopefully, he read the context and can explain the nature of his question. Huh? does not mean much to me. The text under discussion was Mat. 19: 1-12. This may refresh your memory or the one who actually directed the question to me.

 

Hi Frank,

I'm beginning to sense a pervading lack of charity in your posts, and consequently, I am going to refrain from responding to you. It is only my hope that you will discontinue to address me and others in such a condescending fashion. May God be with you and bless you.

yours in Christ,

Carson

 

Carson:
I did not address you in any condescending manner.
You asked a question in of itself that has the answer in front of you. Then, quip does your church have eunoch's as well. The text itself declares there are such men. Why ask the question when the post you made answered the question? Perhaps, it was because you did not understand the context of the discussion of Mat. 19: 1-9 and the Lord's response in 12. Perhaps, the question was asked as a request of someone else. What else was I supposed to surmise from the question, If it was sincere? I must admit you seem to atempt to chide or ridicule those who simply, and bluntly post the truth and question you as to why you refuse to believe it? I do not get offended when I am asked a question. I did make my remarks tongue in cheek with a dash of sarcasm, as the answer was in the text itelf. It was not intended to be condescending. It did strike a nerve, I see. However, if you do not want these type responses, perhaps you should make your questions clear? If you are joking? Fine. Do not get upset when one engages in the same type retorts. If you were offended by the manner of my response I apologize. However, I do not retract the truth of the post regarding Mat. 19:1-9,12.
I refuse judge a man's heart as you have mine.

Let me make this affirmation as clear as the word clear could ever be clear. I affrim that The New Testament alone is the authoratative and sufficient word of God for all the spritual needs of man. I affrim. I guess, if you are a Roman Cathoilc you deny this. Yes, I oppose the doctrine of the RCC or any church that does not submit to the last will and testament of Jesus Christ.
Finally, you do not have to respond to me in any manner. However, if you post error, I will expose it and refute it. Your lack of repsonse will not change this fact.
It is my hope you will put down the traditions of men and obey the gospel. Have a good day.

 

1 Timothy 3:1b "Whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task."

Being a bishop is not the same as being a deacon (obviously) or presbyrter (which is synonymous with elder).

Also, it says "married only once," which makes the decree that a divorced man or widower who remarries can not be a Bishop. The Catholic tradition of celibacy is a discipline, and not a doctrine, which is why Eastern Catholic rites do not hold to it. These Eastern rites are under the Bishop of Rome, and he gladly encourages them to follow in their tradition of married priests as it is working well for them. Celibacy is working well in the West. It's a discipline, that could be changed if there was a serious need for it. Celibacy is spoken of as a gift by both Jesus and Paul.

You're just attacking what you can't comprehend because you haven't experienced it yourself. Few are called to such a life, and few are expected to be called to it.

You're vehemont anti-Catholic arguments are convincing anyone.

You don't have Bishops as understood in the traditional Christian sense.

God bless,

Grant

 

It's a good thing God put you in charge of things, Frank. It's amazing that Chritianity made it for 2000 years before you got here.

God bless,

Grant