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Would John the baptizer be welcomed here?

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by BobRyan, Dec 19, 2004.

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  1. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Since many have indicated that they do not consider the faith of the disciples of Christ before the Cross to be Christian or to qualify them for fellowship on the Baptist-only section of the Baptist board (With some question as to whether they would be allowed on this section as well), I have a question for the group about John the baptizer.

    Was he trinitarian?

    Was he sabbatarian?

    Was he eating rats?

    Did he fully understand the divinity of Christ as the disciples did after the cross?

    How did his doctrinal views compare with Christ's disciples? Was John - more doctrinally correct before his death than Christ's own disciples at the last Supper? (excluding Judas of course)

    By his own direct statements - what doctrinal view of the Trinity, the Sabbath, The law of God, the 10 commandments, the book of Leviticus, Scripture etc -- did he hold? (Scripture please)

    How would he compare to a modern Messianic Jew who fully accepts the substiutionary atonement of Christ and fully accepts the larger view of the Trinity?

    Would his views be welcomed here - or on the Baptist-only board?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #1 BobRyan, Dec 19, 2004
  2. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

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    He ate locusts for crying out loud. He preached things that were not in the Jewish Faith and Message. He preached of the Holy Ghost and Fire! He baptized! And he was considered a heretic, wasn't he? :eek:
     
    #2 LadyEagle, Dec 19, 2004
  3. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Off with his head! Then.
     
    #3 BobRyan, Dec 19, 2004
  4. don 3426

    don 3426 New Member

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    What ??? he preached From God. he told of jesuses arival. He was considerd a heritic by people who were heritics themslves those who made ther own laws about the bible.
     
    #4 don 3426, Dec 21, 2004
  5. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis <img src =/curtis.gif>
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    John, before he baptized Jesus, was preaching repentance. He lived a most humble life. He knew who Jesus was at first sight.

    I don't see any hatred of John, before he spoke against the king. I could be wrong.
     
    #5 Bro. Curtis, Dec 21, 2004
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    The "point" is that he was not Trinitarian (or at least no message of his indicates this) and he had never read Paul, never sat at the feet of Jesus, never preached about the cross, never preached about the resurrection of Christ.

    His doctrine was "at best" similar to the disciples sitting at the feet of Jesus before the Cross.

    He kept the Sabbath, and obeyed God's Word in Lev 11..

    What kind of Baptist is that??

    He -- like JWs was not trinitarian and like them he DID believe in full acceptance of the Genesis account and accepted Jesus as the true Messiah.

    A messianic Jew today that accepts the Trinity would be "beyond" the point where John the baptizer was during his life.

    So - do you "really" think John would be welcomed here?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #6 BobRyan, Dec 21, 2004
  7. Brownov

    Brownov New Member

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    How can John be honestly compared to anyone living "after" Christ's death? He knew the Scriptures (OT) and followed them as God had intended the Jews to do since the time of Moses. Was that wrong? No. He succeeded where most of the Jews alive then failed, in that, he recognized Jesus as the Messiah and fulfillment of the OT. You are trying to ask an invalid question. You want to know if he believed the same things as modern Baptists do. How could he? He did not have the knowledge of the gospel that we do, but if he was alive today, after Christ's death, would he be a baptist? Who can answer that question? He performed his task as God designed at the time which God determined, he prepared the way for Christ to come. He lived by the truth that was revealed to him, he could not be responsible for truth revealed after he died.
     
    #7 Brownov, Dec 21, 2004
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    You are certainly free to speculate that John the baptizer would change his doctrinal views if alive today and would join a local Baptist fellowship.

    However we must admit that members of all Christian groups would also like to speculate that same thing about his changing doctrine and joining their Christian communion as well.

    My point is to simply look at what scripture SAYS that John actually taught and believed. Staying "sola scriptura" - what DID he believe? And would we not see HIS views the the views of Christ's loyal faithful disciples pre-cross being very similar? I think so - at best.

    Hence the question and the thread.

    However in your response above you seem to admit that if he held to those doctrines we see him teaching and practicing in scripture - he might not be well received by Baptists today - not at all.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #8 BobRyan, Dec 21, 2004
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