Sola Scriptura vs Sola Scriptura

The denominations are a result of false teachers and people who argue over debatable matters. In other words, they are a result of the flesh.

People of many different denominations will be in heaven, while many people of many different denominations will not.

 

But when someone comes up with laws that are contrary to the constitution it is incumbent upon the governing body to make corrections. I submit to you that Christianity apart from the Catholic faith is without a governing body and thus is frought with confusion and error.

God Bless

John </font>[/QUOTE]You believe the Catholic Church is the Authority behind Christianity, so it is natural for you to believe the Catholic church is the only place where interpretation of Christian writings can take place.

I do not believe the Catholic (Roman or Orthodox) Church is the authority behind Christianity but rather, and only, one of the adherant groups within Christianity. The Authority behind Christianity is The Christ who established Christianity.

The Christ left us with "a church", a collective of believers and adherants to HIS teachings. He did not assign any one faction or group within His church the authority to interpret his thoughts, but rather to understand them and apply them to our own and individual lives, and that is the role of the Holy Spirit to enable our understanding. Afterall, it is the Spirit of God that caused Peter to confess that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah! It is the Spirit of God that brings all believers to the point where they can confess that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah. It is that same Spirit of God that guides all of us in interpreting the writings left to us through divine intervention.

It is, by the way, "the Spirit of Americanism and democracy" that causes us to interpret the Constitution and the laws of the land based on the constitution. When we who are "interpreting" the constitution also have the Spirit of God to guide us, we interpret the constitution in the light of God's will for our great nation. It is when we do not have that light, that we make immoral interpretations such as Roe v Wade! The result of Roe v. Wade is simply magnitudes greater immorality in our nation.

No, my friend, the Catholic Church does not hold the Keys to interpretation of scripture, God's Spirit is the sole "keeper of the Keys".

Now to give credit where credit is well due. The Catholic Church has been God's instrument in the preservation of the scriptures so that any and all who are guided by the Spirit of God can interpret and apply them to their lives. The Catholic Church has done a most excellent job in doing so, even to preventing many through the years from having unfiltered access to them.

 

The denominations are a result of false teachers and people who argue over debatable matters. In other words, they are a result of the flesh.

People of many different denominations will be in heaven, while many people of many different denominations will not. </font>[/QUOTE]WRONG! No Denominational names will every appear in the Halls of Heaven! Saved in Heaven! Unsaved in the Lake of Fire! That is the Choice, and it is yours to make! There are no subdivisions in Heaven like there are subdivisions of New York City!

Once you get that concept in your mind, you will see that it matters not one twit what the name of the denomination you align with may be.

So, what does it take to be saved? John 3:16 is a very good start!

 

Considering that I never said there would be, I don't see what you are talking about.

I would say that some of this is true and some of this is false. If one really believes what some denominations teach, I don't see how they can be found righteous.

 

Submit to God yes, submit to man no. </font>[/QUOTE]What about submitting to those to whom Christ has given authority? If Christ has given certain men authority "X", would you submit to those men when they were exercising that authority?

 

There is no proof that Jesus gave the men who are make up the RCC at this moment authority. As a matter of fact, there is plenty of evidence to the contrary.

 

You didn't answer the question...

 

I believe I did. The obvious answer is yes, if these men have authority given by Jesus, then we should submit.

See my earlier post about the Catholic Church.

 

You fail to recognize that Jesus himself gave implicit recognition to the Old Testament in Luke 24:44 as we have it today: to the prophets, the psalms, and the books of Moses. That is how the Jews divided their 39 books of the Bible (though it wasn't 39 to them because they combined some of them). Jesus, the apostles, or any of the early Christians ever quoted from the apocrypha--which you are alluding to. The Jews neither had any use for these books, some of which were outright forgeries such as the additions to Daniel. Not even officially acknowledged by the Catholic Church until 1534, history concedes that the Old Testament consistently had 39 books in it. Both protestants and Catholics agree that the New Testament have 27 books in it, so now there should be no argument that our Bible has 66 books as given in the Table of Contents.
I tell you that authoritatively, if that is what you would like to hear.

The Bible is complete and without error because of the promises in Scripture that it would be. One of those promises came from the recorded words of Jesus himself. So this is not just internal evidence if you will, it is historical. These are the very words of Jesus that:
(Mat 5:18 KJV) For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

The apostles said in their epistles that they were to consider their words as equivalent and just as important as the prophets.

2Pet.3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:

All Scripture is inspired--that of the Apostles, and that of the prophets--the Old Testament and the New. Do not add to it. Do not take away from it. Rev.22:18,19).

Keep also in mind that I said the Bible is my final authority in all matters pertaining to faith and doctrine. I also said that we do use other authorities, but the Bible is our final authority.
DHK

 

So, has a conclusion been reached as to how, using sola Scriptura, Rev. Joshua's interpretation of Scripture can be authoritatively declared to be wrong?

 

In my life it has.

There is no way we can force our views on another. God does not expect us to.

(No matter what your church teaches you)

 

JFS Said: "If I read your statement correctly you seem to be saying that Sola Scripture is an authority unto itself. Is this correct? Who decides what is what then?"

Is it an authority unto itself? I'm not sure how you define this. To me this whole debate is really ridiculas. Scripture says something in an plain and authorative way so there is really only one way to take it, yet somepeople disregard the plain teaching of scripture. Is this a problem with Sola Scripture? No it's a problem with the person who is reading what they want to read and not what the bible says.

Now I will admit readily that everyone does this in some way or another. I don't beleive my theology to be perfect. I do the best I can, but I'm human and there are some theological issues that I can't grasp, or do so in a way that I don't fully understand or even I'm sure read into the text what's not there sometimes. It's not becasue of Sola Scripture, it's becasue of me that my theology isn't perfect. That said the doctrinal issue that inspired this thread is so plain throughout Scripture that the people who aprove of the recent decision are not holding anywhere near Sola Scripture on this issue. It's not Sola Scripture's fault, it's there's.

Bryan
SDG

 

Bryan,

My answer to this is the Real Presence in the Eucharist. Talk about a "plain teaching" with "really only one way to take it"! And yet, most of the non-Catholic world plainly sees it the other way...

 

Rest assured, my Church does not teach me that I can or should force my views or its views on another. Is that what your church taught you that my church teaches me?

 

No, that is what Catholics say themselves. The Catholic Church holds the keys, therefore everyone else must fall in line. The Catholic Church is here to force everyone into the correct understanding.

 

No, that is what Catholics say themselves. The Catholic Church holds the keys, therefore everyone else must fall in line. The Catholic Church is here to force everyone into the correct understanding. </font>[/QUOTE]Tuor,

You are obviously among the millions who hate the Catholic Church not for what it teaches, but for what they mistakenly believe it teaches. Unless, that is, you have been personally assaulted by the Catechism Police.

 

Catechism Police? You mean the Jesuits?

Bryan
SDG

 

No, I am just stating what I've heard Catholics say.