Sola Scriptura vs Sola Scriptura

Well you have just identified two "separate" deities in one simple statement.

OK, but what do you do then with the Holy Spirit in whose completely separate name we are to baptise?

The last time I checked this chapter and verse is still in the bible.

What distinguishes man from all other mammals? All mammals have flesh and a life force that quickens the flesh. Man has flesh and a life force that quickens the flesh. Man however is made a little higher than the animals by man being spirit in a body of flesh. So man has flesh, a life force that quickens the flesh, and Spirit. The spirit is the life of the flesh, that is, the flesh with its life force dies but the spirit lives after the flesh dies.

does not deserve serious comment.

Perhaps, but you cannot deny that there are three distinct aspects to the completeness of the human. Flesh, life force that quickens the flesh, and Spirit that lives on after the flesh dies. If you do deny such then you simply are burying your head in the sand.

You really should pay closer attention to your bible, or stick with the KJV. Those who read all of the scriptures find those special Gems like Matt 28:19. Sola Scriptura does in TRUTH recognize a Triune God Head...God in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Glory Halelujah!

 

Well you have just identified two "separate" deities in one simple statement.

My reference to God and His Son is not an identification of two separate deities. Its the identification of the one supreme Deity and His Son. God's Son identifies His Father as the "only true God". (John 17: 3) The Father and His Son do not make up the "only true God". In other words, the being of God the Father does NOT consist of Himself plus His Son plus His Spirit as three separate, individual entities that are three separate deities. The "only true God" is one personal Divine Being. In other words, God is a "He", not a "They".

OK, but what do you do then with the Holy Spirit in whose completely separate name we are to baptise?

Well, first of all, its not a formula that must be adhered to in baptism. Tradition has made it such, but the record of Scripture shows that the apostles did their baptisms in the name of the Lord Jesus. Secondly, there's some question as to the validity of that lone verse of Scripture. And thirdly, even if that verse is valid, it doesn't define God as a Trinity. The verse doesn't mention three names plural. Its the ONE NAME-singular that is cited. Now here's the interesting point. The NAME of the Father we are told in Scripture is Yahweh or Jehovah. The name of His Son is the same. For in Hebrews 1:4, we read that God's Son inherited the excellent name of His Father. And as far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, the words "Holy Spirit" is NOT a name, but an adjective and a noun. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Yahweh or Jehovah. There's only ONE GOD and ONE NAME and that name is in His Son and would also apply to His Spirit just as your own spirit would be identifed as YOU and not another person.

Perhaps, but you cannot deny that there are three distinct aspects to the completeness of the human. Flesh, life force that quickens the flesh, and Spirit....

Right. I do not deny the aspect of flesh, life force, and spirit which is the identification of the individual. But what I do deny is that those three aspects constitute three separate individual beings. My flesh is not one distinct being while my life force is a second distinct being while my spirit is yet a third distinct being. All of those aspects make up my being in its entirety. Now lets take it on another level, from a human standpoint. I am a father and I have a son and of course I have a spirit which is in me. Now, I am a distinct being. My son is also a distinct being. But my spirit is NOT a distinct being - it is an integral part of MY BEING! The same thing applies to God. God is a singular personal being. God's only begotten Son is also a singular personal being. But the Spirit OF God is NOT a separate personal being but rather constitutes an integral part of the personality of God.

You really should pay closer attention to your bible, or stick with the KJV.

I do, my friend and that's why I can confidently declare, from the authority of God's Word, that Sola Scriptura knows no Trinity.

God Bless.

Ricky

 

My reference to God and His Son is not an identification of two separate deities. Its the identification of the one supreme Deity and His Son. God's Son identifies His Father as the "only true God". (John 17: 3) The Father and His Son do not make up the "only true God". In other words, the being of God the Father does NOT consist of Himself plus His Son plus His Spirit as three separate, individual entities that are three separate deities. The "only true God" is one personal Divine Being. In other words, God is a "He", not a "They".</font>[/QUOTE]Quoting you from this very same post,

Seems there is confusion in your mind as to your position on this matter. In one place you say one thing while a paragraph or two later you say something else.

By the way Jesus also said, "I and the Father are one", therefore we see that there are two personages that are deity and called God, for Jesus is called Emmanuel, which is God with us.

Well, first of all, its not a formula that must be adhered to in baptism. Tradition has made it such, but the record of Scripture shows that the apostles did their baptisms in the name of the Lord Jesus. Secondly, there's some question as to the validity of that lone verse of Scripture. And thirdly, even if that verse is valid, it doesn't define God as a Trinity. The verse doesn't mention three names plural. Its the ONE NAME-singular that is cited. Now here's the interesting point. The NAME of the Father we are told in Scripture is Yahweh or Jehovah. The name of His Son is the same. For in Hebrews 1:4, we read that God's Son inherited the excellent name of His Father. And as far as the Holy Spirit is concerned, the words "Holy Spirit" is NOT a name, but an adjective and a noun. The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God, the Spirit of Yahweh or Jehovah. There's only ONE GOD and ONE NAME and that name is in His Son and would also apply to His Spirit just as your own spirit would be identifed as YOU and not another person.</font>[/QUOTE]Matthew 28:19 is a command from Jesus and clearly calls out three entities of deity that are to be invoked when one is baptised. The intent is quite clear that there are three persons in the single Godhead, they all work together as one. Now are there three persons such as Manny, Moe, and Jack the Pep Boys? No, but there are three separately identifiable personages, each functioning in an identifiable manner who are identified as part of the Triune God Head. Therefore The Godhead is a Trinity.

Right. I do not deny the aspect of flesh, life force, and spirit which is the identification of the individual. But what I do deny is that those three aspects constitute three separate individual beings. My flesh is not one distinct being while my life force is a second distinct being while my spirit is yet a third distinct being. All of those aspects make up my being in its entirety. Now lets take it on another level, from a human standpoint. I am a father and I have a son and of course I have a spirit which is in me. Now, I am a distinct being. My son is also a distinct being. But my spirit is NOT a distinct being - it is an integral part of MY BEING! The same thing applies to God. God is a singular personal being. God's only begotten Son is also a singular personal being. But the Spirit OF God is NOT a separate personal being but rather constitutes an integral part of the personality of God.</font>[/QUOTE]How is it that God who is spirit and is called "the Father" can have a spirit that is known as the Holy Spirit and be one spirit? I think you are confused about the persons of God.

Can the human survive without flesh, life force, or spirit? The truthful answer is Yes, because the truest essence of man is that of spirit. When the flesh dies, the spirit departs to be with the Lord or to be judged and cast into the lake of fire in accordance with the faith established while part of a triune being.

However, the flesh cannot live without the life force or the spirit.

I do, my friend and that's why I can confidently declare, from the authority of God's Word, that Sola Scriptura knows no Trinity.

God Bless.

Ricky</font>[/QUOTE]Your testimony makes it true then that some cannot see spiritual truth in the scriptures, for you certainly fail to see the truth of the triune Godhead which we call the Trinity.

 

Seems there is confusion in your mind as to your position on this matter. In one place you say one thing while a paragraph or two later you say something else.

I'm not confused my friend. What is so confusing in the statements that God and His Son are two individuals but that these two individuals DO NOT CONSTITUTE the one God? There's no confusion. The Bible plainly tells us that the one God is the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6), not the Father plus two other deities.

By the way Jesus also said, "I and the Father are one", therefore we see that there are two personages that are deity and called God, for Jesus is called Emmanuel, which is God with us.

Yes, Jesus said that He and His Father are one, but NOT ONE GOD! They are one in Spirit. Jesus prayed to His Father that His believing children would be one just like the Father and the Son are one. So then according to your logic, when God's children become one with the Father and the Son, they become a part of the Trinity, but then again, it would no longer be a Trinity with more than three entities constituting one. The Trinity doctrine is flawed and more holes can be poked in it than the hole-iest hunk of Swiss Cheese in existence!

Matthew 28:19 is a command from Jesus and clearly calls out three entities of deity that are to be invoked when one is baptised. The intent is quite clear that there are three persons in the single Godhead, they all work together as one.

Firstly, its not a command. For if it was a command, there would be a record of the apostles obeying it as such. But the Biblical record speaks differently. They baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

You see, friend? NOT ONE TIME in the record of Scripture did the apostles baptize according to the traditional formula. Now, either the apostles disobeyed a command of Christ or it was never a command to begin with. The truth is that the formula is an article of TRADITION and is not grounded in the apostolic church. Baptisms were done in the name of the Lord Jesus only.

Secondly, there is absolutely NO INTENT in the verse you have cited that there are three deites in one Godhead. God doesn't speak nonsense. You can't have three gods be one god. And one god cannot be three gods. Impossible! The Trinity doctrine distorts the one true God into a monstrosity of a pantheon of three gods, a multiplicity of deities. That's polytheism, my friend and a form of paganism. The Bible never endorses such heresies. This is the child of the Roman Catholic Church and an article of tradition that Protestantism holds on to. There is no basis of it in the word of God.

How is it that God who is spirit and is called "the Father" can have a spirit that is known as the Holy Spirit and be one spirit? I think you are confused about the persons of God.

God is a Spirit. God is holy. Therefore His Spirit is Holy. Did you not ever read in the Psalms in which God says that He fills all of heaven and earth? Do you think that He does this by having His head in heaven and His feet on earth? He fills all of heaven and earth by virtue of His omnipresent Holy Spirit. Yet He does have a bodily form in which He sits on His throne in heaven.

Can the human survive without flesh, life force, or spirit?

The Biblical answer is NO. But that's another discussion. The Bible assures us that the dead have no consciousness, no knowledge, no more thought processes, no more feelings or emotions, etc. A dead person is DEAD - in a dreamless sleep, unaware of the passage of time. Its the opposite of life. When Paul said about being absent from the body and present with the Lord, he wasn't saying that the spirit keeps living when the body dies. What happens is when a person dies, he/she is totally unconscious and that person's next moment of consciousness will be at the resurrection. And whether or not that person has been dead for 5 minutes or for 5 thousand years, the amount of time to the dead person will be like the twinkling of an eye so that his/her next conscious moment, if saved, will be in the presence of the Lord. The human spirit, after death is kept by God and restored at the resurrrection.

Your testimony makes it true then that some cannot see spiritual truth in the scriptures, for you certainly fail to see the truth of the triune Godhead which we call the Trinity.

Anyone that is willing to be bold enough to remove the glasses of tradition that they were taught by their denomination and simply study the word of God and accept what it has to say WITHOUT allowing what one was previously indoctrinated with by their denomination will see that the Scriptures know no Trinity.

God Bless.

Ricky

 

We shall continue to disagree!

 

Deja vu! Is it 325 AD all over again?

 

By the way, how appropriate to call this thread "Sola Scriptura vs Sola Scriptura"! We get to see the Nicene/Arian debate all over again, this time with no recourse to Tradition (2 Thess 2:15) as judge.

 

I do think that Ricky, God's blessings be upon him, may have been sent to this thread to open a few eyes! Our Lord draws straight with crooked lines!