The next temple.

Jo$h,

Your consistency and inconsistency screams out loud in not taking Scripture literally. Of course the last days have continued for nearly 2000 years. But they still continue because the Jews have only partially returned to their land. No Scripture requires all of them to "repent and be saved" PRIOR to the personal PRESENCE of their Messiah!

You forsake the "literal" regathering of Israel
and Judah in your final paragraph above. That's
why I'm sorry you cannot see the necessity of
Christ's personal return from heaven in order
for "all of Israel to be saved and to be shown
God's mercy". Rom.11:26-33.

Ezekiel 38-39 cannot possibly be fulfilled
until the Jews are brot back from the nations
and God "no longer hides His face from them".
My personal friend, a Messianic Jew, has
preached to thousands of the Messianic Jews
of the Tribe of Manasseh near Burma who have been returning to Israel as Believers.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

If all of Israel is saved, how is Israel saved today, how has Israel been saved since AD 70.

The last days take 2000 years? You are joking right?

The 10 lost tribes are the fullness of the gentiles read Gen 48:19 Israel's last days.

 

Even in modern Judaism only their Messiah can regather Israel, No Scripture allows Israel to return to the land without repentence. So called messianic jews have returned to the land, the promise land of Jesus Christ. It is no different than you or I returning.

The New Testament is the 2nd Exodus of 40 years, the generation of Jesus' time, IE THIS GENERATION, the Jews wanted freedom from politcal bondage, Jesus came to free us and them from spiritual bondage(sin), Israel was regathered at pentecost (The REAL messianic Jews), the fullness of the gentiles was grafted in and so all Israel is saved. They already made it to the promise land (Jesus Christ) along with all believers since then.

Rom 9:6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel

 

Jo$h: "The last days take 2000 years? You are joking right?"

God is Dead Serious Biblically about AT LEAST
a 2,000 year long last days. The last days continue apace....

2 Peter 3:8 (KJV1611 Edition):
But (beloued) bee not ignorant of this one thing,
that one day is with the Lord as a thousand yeeres,
and a thousand yeeres as one day.

Act 2:16-17 (LJV1611 Edition):
But this is that which was spoken by the Prophet Ioel,
Act 2:17 And it shall come to passe in the last dayes (saith God)
I will powre out of my Spirit vpon all flesh:
and your sonnes and your daughters shall prophesie,
and your yong men shall see visions, and your old men
shall dreame dreames:

Peter declared at the Day of Pentacost, 33AD that the
LAST DAYS were here. This has gone on for:

2006-33 = 1,973 (One Thousand Nine Hundred and Seventy-three) years.

But this is but TWO (2) of God's days.

2 Peter 3:10 (KJV1611 Edition):
But the day of the Lord wil come as a thiefe in the night,
in the which the heauens shall passe away with a great noise,
and the Elements shall melt with feruent heate,
the earth also and the works that are therin shalbe burnt vp.

When you read Revelation 20, you can see that it is at least
1,000years between the Return of the Lord and the
distruciton of the earth. So this DAY OF THE LORD is
1,000 years or longer in length.

 

Jo$h,
Quote:
______________________________________________
"If all of Israel is saved, how is Israel saved today, how has Israel been saved since AD 70?

The last days take 2000 years? You are joking right"?
______________________________________________

We are not on the same wavelength as you know.
I consider that "all Israel will be saved" on
the Day Christ comes in person and in power
from heaven. There is an election of grace now
that includes some from Israel since Pentecost.

God looks on the passage of millenniums as if
each is but a single day. That's why the Day
of the Lord has been "near" since Isaiah wrote
13:6. A 1000 years to God is LIKE a single day.

That's why John wrote that it was "the last time" as of his epistle (I John 2:18) and Peter spoke of the last days relative to Pentecost and wrote of "salvation ready to be revealed in the last time" (I Pet.1:5) and Jude 18 refers to the Apostles having predicted "mockers will come in the last time".

DNA evidence proves the direct lineage of the tribes of Israel continus to this day. I do
not believe your reference to Gen.48:19 means
that Gentile nations have come out of Ephraim.

The reason we are on two irreconcilable waves
is that I take the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31
and 33, Hebrews 8, Ezekiel 37 and Rom.11:25 as referring to the literal restoration of God's former people to the land of Israel. For them,
even in their unbelief, the Old Covenant is still in force and will finally disappear
as part of their belief-system when Christ comes and God "remembers their sin no more and they all know the Lord, from the least to the greatest". Heb.8:8-13.

I don't mind exchanging thoughts, but there is
absolutely no hope of resolving our views on
the future of the Davidic Millennial Kingdom.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Jo$h

If the "seventh day" (MK) is a 1000 years, why shouldn't the other days also be a 1000 years???

Ex 23:12 Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest:

This link will explain it, BTW, read the whole link, bits/pieces won't give you a clear picture.

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3398.html#000000

 

Me4Him: //If the "seventh day" (MK) is a 1000 years, why shouldn't
the other days also be a 1000 years???//

Might be logical, but there is proof that did not happen.
And if it did happen, then it will be 240 years before the
6,000 years of man are extinguished.

The problem it looks like we are the 6,000 years mark?
The problem is anti-Semitism. For 800 years from about 780AD
to 1580AD the Jew found on space under British control
were killed or Banished. Jews were not allowed in England.

 

I don't remember the man's name, but he was on TV, Van Impe for one, who wrote a book showing how Israel had lost 240 years in their figures,

I also ran across a post buy another individual who had done pretty much the same thing showing the time line up to the present day, it to had a 240 years difference, so it is the 6000 years, actually seventh if you figure 2000 as the end of the 6th.

I'll look for the post, it was on "Zolaboard" about 3-4 months ago.

You might want to Google the info on the book.

 

You dispies always love to quote that verse. The problem is you disregard the 2nd half of the verse when it says 1000 years as one day.

God is not communicating time to Himself, He communicates time to our understanding. God has not changed His way of understanding time. For instance, He told Daniel to seal up the book for it is many days yet to come, He told John the time is near. Daniel was told he would not live to see the prophecy (Dan 12:13), John was told he would live to see the prophecy (Mat. 16:27-28, Mat. 10:22-23; Mat. 24:34; Jn. 21:18-22).

By your logic the earth was created in 6000 years and your 1000 kingdom is 1 day. Plus, it would take Joshua 6000 years to march around jericho. When Peter quotes Psalm 90 his point is when God says something will happen it is not slow, it will happen in This Generation, quickly, shortly, at hand, about to be, near, and soon. He is communicating time to us in our understanding.

 

So if the Old Covenant is still in effect and Isreal is not obeying it, how come they can still dwell in the land when Leviticus 20:22 says the land will vomit them out for not obey God's laws.

Gen 48:19 A MULTITUDE OF NATIONS” in Hebrew is “Maloa ha-Goyim” check your concordance it means Fullness of the Gentiles. Ephraim the Northern Kingdoms largest tribe, and who God's uses in His prophecies to refer to the Northern Kingdom is the Fullness of the Gentiles. It is part of God's regathering of Israel.

Let's read the restored Remnant in Isaiah Chapter 11:11 Then it will happen on that day that the Lord Will again recover the second time with His hand The remnant of His people, who will remain, From Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, And from the islands of the sea.12 And He will lift up a standard for the nations And assemble the banished ones of Israel, And will gather the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth.13 Then the jealousy of Ephraim will depart, And those who harass Judah will be cut off; Ephraim will not be jealous of Judah, And Judah will not harass Ephraim.

Now let's look in Hosea Chapter 3:3 Then I said to her, “You shall stay with me for many days. You shall not play the harlot, nor shall you have a man; so I will also be toward you.” 4For the sons of Israel will remain for many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar and without ephod or household idols. 5 Afterward the sons of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king; and they will come trembling to the LORD and to His goodness in the last days.

So in the last days Israel will return from the nations they were scattered and seek God and serve their Messiah. I am sure you will agree with that.

Since we have established that Peter was in the last days let's look at what he says in Acts Chapter 2 the day of Pentecost when Jews from everywhere regather and go to the land.

In verses 1-4 we have me4himms signs that he keeps ignoring, and in verse 5 Peter says Now there were Jews living in Jerusalem, devout men from every nation under heaven(you only have to practice the jewish religion to be a jew). 6And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language. 7They were amazed and astonished, saying, “Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8“And how is it that we each hear them in our own language to which we were born? 9“ Parthians and Medes and Elamites, and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the districts of Libya around Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and £proselytes, 11Cretans and Arabs we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of God.”

Now is that not the EXACT same area that the 10 lost tribes were scattered, and Isaiah was referring too.

Peter goes on to say in verse 29-35 that Jesus is their messiah and God raised Him from the dead and seated Him on David's THrone. And in verse 36 God has made Him both Lord and Christ, not WILL make Him 2000 years from now, but HAS made HIM. God ALREADY made Jesus their Messiah.

So then Isaiah said the faithful remnant of Israel will return, Peter said they did, Hosea said they will seek David their king in the last days, Peter says they did.

Hosea 11:5 They won't return into the land of Egypt; but the Assyrian will be their king, because they refused to repent

How was Israel regathered to the TRUE LAND, verse 37 “Brethren, what shall we do?” 38Peter said to them, “ Repent , and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Israel was regathered for the forgiveness of sin.
We share in God's faithful promises to Israel.

[ May 05, 2006, 12:59 AM: Message edited by: Jo$h ]

 

Whomever: //By your logic the earth was created in 6000 years and your 1000 kingdom is 1 day.//

You don't know logic, you don't know me, you don't know my logic.

Revelation 20 confirms my DAY OF THE LORD is 1,000 years long.
No Scripture confirms the earth being created in 6,000 years.
No Scripture confirms a 1-day = 1,000 years for the Messanic
Kingdom.

 

Why do you continue to ignore the 2nd part of the verse when it says 1000 years is 1 day? If 1000 years is 1 day and 1 day is 1000 years, then it took God 6000 years to create the earth, and the 1000 year kingdom is 1 day.

 

//Why do you continue to ignore the 2nd part of the verse ... //

Which part of "You don't know logic,
you don't know me, you don't know
my logic." are you having a problem with?

//You dispies always love to quote that verse.//

You are dispie also, with value = zero.

Is the word 'Isreal' or 'Israel'?

Ed: //Peter declared at the Day of Pentacost, 33AD that the
LAST DAYS were here. This has gone on for:
2006-33 = 1,973 (One Thousand Nine Hundred and Seventy-three) years.
But this is but TWO (2) of God's days.//

So it is obvious that the pretribulation
rapture is still SOON, was always soon before,
will always be SOON until HE comes to get us.

 

Me4Him: //I don't remember the man's name, but he was on TV, Van Impe for one,
who wrote a book showing how Israel had lost 240 years in their figures,//

I read an article in J.R.Church's PROPHECY IN THE NEWS. I probably
still have it somewhere about the house. The argument is
unconvincing. Check the scripture that in the KJV speaks
of the Jews keeping the 'oracles of God'. If they could
keep the oracles of God (like the Old Testament /OT/) they should
have been able to keep a simple count of years.

BTW, why does your date for
/pause for on topic phrase/
the completetion of the building of the Temple
/unpause on topic/
be the same as the Mayan, namely 2012?
Yep, 2012 is the last year on the Mayan calendar???

Anyway, back in late October, early November of 2000
I was waiting at a site that predicted in that time
frame, the postribultion only Second Coming of our Lord
would take place. He would whip up on Antichrist Suddam Husain
and end the Tribulation of the Iraqi people.
Recall that in late October 1993 that the then leader of the
Israli and Yasar Arafat signed a 7-year peace treaty with
each other (which within a few thousand terrorist bombers
was rather peaceful). Remember Bill Clinton (AKA: Beast from the land )
having his picutre made with his hands around the both?
Well, Jesus didn't show up to end the world (thus proving
my pretribualtion rapture ideas) on somebody else's schedule.

My reading includes:

1. The history of the Adventism movement in the USofA.
In 1843 some Miller (not Mel) whose first name i've forgotten
thought the Lord would Return (AKA: Second Advent). Oops,
he forgot about there is no year zero - make that 1844. The
Lord didn't show on Miller's schedule. I think the Adventist
movement continued on saying that in 1844 the Lord entered the
Temple IN HEAVEN.

2. IN 1988 Edgar C. Whisenant, an Arkansas pastor, was looking
for the Lord to Return. Oops, he forgot about there is
no year zero, make that 1989. Anyway, the LOrd didn't show
up on Whisenant's schedule.

If the Lord Taries past your date and into the
next year, be sure to hollar
"oops, I forgot about there is no year zero".
Yep, there is no year zero. 31 Dec 01BC is followedimmediately by
01 Jan 01AD.

 

Jo$h,

Good job of yours in quoting Scripture to support my view that the re-gathering of
Israel the "2nd time" foresees both "sticks"
of Ephraim and Judah reunited as one Nation.

But you do not stick to the text that Judah
includes two tribes and Ephraim includes ten.
Instead you interpret "Ephraim" as referring
to Gentile nations. That's where we part.

Quote #1:
______________________________________________
"So if the Old Covenant is still in effect and Isreal is not obeying it, how come they can still dwell in the land when Leviticus 20:22 says the land will vomit them out for not obey God's laws"?
_______________________________________________

They may dwell in the land since they no longer
worship idols. I did not say the Old Covenant
is still in effect; but that Ephraim is ignorant of the future application of the New Covenant yet to be fulfilled when "Gentile fulness has come and God remembers their sin no more". Rom.11:25-27.

The "first" return saw Israel repenting of their
idolatry. They have since worshiped God only.
But the descendants of Ephraim and Judah must
be made "jealous" and accept Messiah enmasse
before they inherit the land as promised in
Ezek.40-48 with the Tribe of Dan also "restored" for the first time since the days of Joshua.
_______________________________________________
Quote #2:
"Gen 48:19 A MULTITUDE OF NATIONS in Hebrew is `Maloa ha-Goyim' check your concordance it means Fullness of the Gentiles. Ephraim the Northern Kingdoms largest tribe, and who God's uses in His prophecies to refer to the Northern Kingdom is the Fullness of the Gentiles. It is part of God's regathering of Israel".
_______________________________________________

Wrong to say nations means "fulness of Gentiles"!
The 2nd restoration to the land has begun; but
the ten tribes represented by Ephraim will have
become a great "multitude of people" (nation can mean people) whom God will "forgive AFTER He has
demonstrated fully that Gentile peoples are ALSO "disobedient". Then God "will show mercy to all nations and/or peoples". Israel will once again become "a people of God"!

Read again for youself about the "2nd time":

Isaiah 11:11-12: "Then it will happen on that day that the Lord Will again recover the second time with His hand the remnant of His people, who will remain, from Assyria, Egypt, Pathros, Cush, Elam, Shinar, Hamath, And from the islands of the sea. And He will lift up a standard for the nations. And assemble the banished ones of Israel, and will gather the dispersed of Judah From the four corners of the earth".
_______________________________________________

You miss the key point: God still looks upon
the "nations' peoples" as separate from Ephraim or Israel and Judah. God will "lift up a standard for the Gentile nations" THROUGH the restored nation of Israel and Judah "united as ONE stick". Ezek.37.

Mel Miller www.lastday.net

 

Not necessarily, I wish I could remember where in the timeline the man showed where Israel lost those 240 years, I'll see if I can find out and post it.

Yep, I picked up on that to, maybe the Mayans knew a little more that we give them credit.

2012 would be the end of 2011, so actually we're a year behind in prophecy.

There's about five major prophecies focusing on "THIS GENERATION", so I don't think any of them will fail, now if it was just one prophecy, I'd have some doubts, but when several prophecies all focus on one time frame, you can take it to the bank, No what I mean, Vern??

The Jews missed the fact that God declared the end from the beginning, the Messiah/Sun (light of the world) was "Created" to "Shine" on/in the world in the "fourth day", three days forward is the "seventh day" or MK, when Jesus said he would be "resurrected", (First resurrection) back on the earth.

Mt 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; (Jesus) and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.


And if "Her branch" is too be the "last generation" then her branch can only be re-established as a nation "WITHIN" a generation of the end of the six days, 1948 is well within this time frame.

Ho 6:2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

1. "Declaring the end from the beginning", 6 days of work, day of rest, 7th.
2. Sun/Jesus created in "fourth day".
3. Jesus's promise to be "resurrected" (back on earth) in three days. (5th, 6th, 7th, (first resurrection)
4. Parable of His/Her branches
5. After two days will he revive us:

All these prophecies focus on the timeframe of "this generation", unlike Israel, I'm not ignorant of the end declared from the beginning.

 

ED

http://www.religiousstudies.uncc.edu/jdtabor/why2k.html

If you are familiar with the traditional Jewish calendar, however, you will immediately spot a problem. According to this calendar, 1999 is the year 5760 since Adam and Eve, rather than 5999. How can we account for this 240-year difference? The answer is that the traditional Jewish calendar, based on the rabbinic text called Seder Olam,* is rooted in rabbinic tradition and theology, not on literal numbers taken directly from the Hebrew Bible. The rabbinic chronology results in 163 fewer years and dates the Babylonian Exile to 423 B.C.E.(5) (This is impossible, according to modern scholarship; we know with certainty that the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar, when he destroyed Jerusalem, burned the Temple and exiled the Jews, was 587 or 586 B.C.E.) The rabbis also count Israel's time in Egypt, based on Exodus 12:40, differently from what I have done above, accounting for an additional difference of 77 years between the rabbinic and Christian systems—giving us a discrepancy of 240 years.

What is particularly intriguing about the general chronological scheme of 6,000 years (our year 2000 equals 6000 years after Adam) is that it does not have the slightest relationship to the birth of Jesus. All the numbers are taken from the Hebrew Bible. And yet, there is a fascinating correlation between the Hebrew and the Christian calendars.

In and of itself, passing the 2,000th year since the birth of Jesus appears to have no significance in the Bible. There are no passages in the New Testament that specifically state that the "age of the Messiah" is to last 2,000 years. However, such a scheme does seem to lie behind the Book of Revelation; the author expects his readers, who are adept in such mystical matters, to pick up on it. If the millennial reign of Christ described in Revelation 20 is a final seventh millennium following six previous ones and Jesus is born at the close of the fourth millennium (based on the standard chronology of the Hebrew Bible), then the period of 2,000 years for an "age of the Messiah" is implicit. Rabbi Eliyyahu, in the talmudic passage quoted earlier, clearly knows a similar tradition—that the Messiah was to appear after 4,000 years and the subsequent age of the Messiah was to last another 2,000 years—though he says that the Messiah did not come on schedule due to the failings of Israel.

 

Me4Him: //The rabbinic chronology results in 163 fewer years and dates the Babylonian Exile to 423 B.C.E.(5) (This is impossible, according to modern scholarship; we know with certainty that the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar, when he destroyed Jerusalem, burned the Temple and exiled the Jews, was 587 or 586 B.C.E.) //

My pastor says 423 BC.
Your 'BCE' is clue of a Jewish source for this statement.

 

'BC' menas 'before Christ'.
'BCE' means 'before the common Era'

The 'common Era' is the Era of Christ.
But note that 'BCE' takes Christ
out of the picure.

 

This difference in the calenders, yet related, is one of those, "it is but it aint", situtations, depending on the context.

Those 240 years have some significance but I have no idea as to what.

Yep, the Jews don't like "BC".