The error of absolution

Do we not ALL have the responsibility and God's given Authority to absolve others of their sins that are confessed?

Absolution does not equal repentance, only forgiveness. </font>[/QUOTE]God never granted me the authority to forgive sins in His name, nor to retain them. I can forgive the offense committed against me, but I cannot forgive the offense committed against God. </font>[/QUOTE]Are you saying that God gives man the authority to forgive sins committed against God? Then what is the purpose of 1 John 1:9? </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, Christ gave authority to forgive sins committed against God to the apostles. To be more precise, Christ agreed to be bound to forgive those sins His "agents" forgave, and to retain those sins His "agents" retained. It is simply another case of the power to bind and loose. So, of course, it is God who forgives sin, but God has given that authority (agreed to be bound) to His "agents."

1 John 1:9 tells us to confess our sins and God will forgive them. John 20:23 tells us how.

 

Do we not ALL have the responsibility and God's given Authority to absolve others of their sins that are confessed?

Absolution does not equal repentance, only forgiveness. </font>[/QUOTE]God never granted me the authority to forgive sins in His name, nor to retain them. I can forgive the offense committed against me, but I cannot forgive the offense committed against God. </font>[/QUOTE]Are you saying that God gives man the authority to forgive sins committed against God? Then what is the purpose of 1 John 1:9? </font>[/QUOTE]Yes, Christ gave authority to forgive sins committed against God to the apostles. To be more precise, Christ agreed to be bound to forgive those sins His "agents" forgave, and to retain those sins His "agents" retained. It is simply another case of the power to bind and loose. So, of course, it is God who forgives sin, but God has given that authority (agreed to be bound) to His "agents."

1 John 1:9 tells us to confess our sins and God will forgive them. John 20:23 tells us how. </font>[/QUOTE]If we all do not have that power, then how is it we can forgive sins against ourselves? How can we tell others of the Atonement for the sins of the world? If a person does not learn that their sins have already been paid for, and are thus forgiven through confession, what is the inducement to believe? Peter, "the first pope" said that we believers are a kingdom of priests, therefore we ALL have priestly authority. Is not Absolution part of that authority?

 

The words "supreme over sin" cannot and should not be taken out of their given context. What is the given context?

To Peter are given the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Sin is the great obstacle to entrance into the kingdom, and over sin Peter is supreme.

Here we see that Peter is given the keys to the kingdom of Heaven, and as we know from Scripture, from Jesus Christ, God Himself. Jesus Christ was given all authority to Him by the Father, and thus it was His right to delegate that authority to whomever and however He saw fit. Jesus gave the keys to the Kingdom of Heaven to Simon Peter.

Now, what is the great obstacle for entering Heaven? Sin. I do not think anyone will disagree; it is sin that separates us from Almighty God and eternal beatitude in Heaven.

So let's recap. Peter is given the KEYS to the KINGDOM OF HEAVE, and SIN keeps us out of Heaven, thus PETER is SUPREME over THAT WHICH KEEPS US OUT OF HEAVEN, SIN. This does not mean that Peter is ABOVE sin as has been applied; it means that Peter has the authority to BIND OR LOOSE the sin of the believer, thus ALLOWING or DISALLOWING Him into Heaven, because He holds the keys. The person who is forgiven is ALLOWED into Heaven. The unforgiven are DISALLOWED into Heaven.

THUS, through the keys given BY GOD TO PETER, Peter, by virtue of this gift and NOT OF HIMSELF has authority over the forgiveness of sins. It is his duty to forgive in the name of Christ, to bind and to loose.

ANY OTHER INTERPRETATION IS GOING AGAINST THE CONTEXT.

 

Curtis, it is obvious that you are unable to articulate or defend your own position.

Why bother to participate here if you have nothing to offer except anger?

 

If "sin is the great obstacle to entrance into the kingdom" Then what value is there in Jesus' atonement for the sins of the world?

Sin is not the great obstacle, FAITH is that great obstacle. Those with faith enter freely as "entry into the kingdom is the free gift of God". Those without faith cannot enter the kingdom.

If the quoted info is Catholic Doctrine, then folks you simply have it wrong!

 

And if one has faith, but continues in grave sin, that person will still enter Heaven?

Even though nothing unclean may enter?

 

If "sin is the great obstacle to entrance into the kingdom" Then what value is there in Jesus' atonement for the sins of the world?

Sin is not the great obstacle, FAITH is that great obstacle. Those with faith enter freely as "entry into the kingdom is the free gift of God". Those without faith cannot enter the kingdom.

If the quoted info is Catholic Doctrine, then folks you simply have it wrong! </font>[/QUOTE]Brother, you just referred to faith in Jesus Christ as an obstacle. Maybe you meant well, but that's a horrible way of putting it. If we did not sin, we'd be in perfect union with God, like in the Garden of Eden, and like we will be in Heaven, thus, not needing faith because we will KNOT Him intimately and fully. However, the gift of faith allows us to put sin behind us; sin is what got us kicked out, and is what we must put behind us to get back in. This was accomplished through Jesus Christ's sacrifice, and must be applied to each new life.

Again, I think I see what you are saying, but I also don't think it should be looked at an obstacle; that implies that God is making it hard for us to be with Him, which He is not. We put the obstacle there, not God, and thus that obstacle cannot be faith, but sin.

 

Jesus tells us that whosoever believeth in Him shall have everlasting life. That everlasting life is lived with Jesus in the midst of the believers.

Faith in Jesus is the single greatest obstacle before man. Many there are who hear the word of God but do not believe. The road to hell is broad, the path to heaven is narrow. So YES, Faith is the obstacle that prevents man from entering Heaven's gate. "Prayer is the key to heaven, but faith unlocks the door", the words from an old favorite Gospel song There is no mention of sin preventing man from entering heaven.

Sins are "works" just like "the good works" of the faith are works. If good works cannot get you into heaven sin cannot keep you out. Faith in Jesus is what gets you into heaven. If you do not have faith you cannot get in, it is that simple.

If you have faith in Jesus, your behavior will follow! You will confess your sins, be forgiven of your sins, and you will repent from sinning. If your behavior does not change in accordance with your stated belief, then there is no reason to believe you have faith. By their fruits you shall know them! Regardless, Every man's works shall be tested as if by fire. Good works come through the fire as like Gold, Silver, and precious stones. Bad works are consumed in the fire as like wood, hay, and stubble are burned, leaving only ash.

 

The Catholic view of absolution is plausible until you understand that every human being has a free will. God does not override the free-agency of human beings either to accept Christ or to refuse Him.

If I had the power I would absolve every sinners sins so that all would be saved, but I more than doubt that God would acknowledge my absolution or accept my stupid idea of making every sinner justified before the eyes and Being of Almighty God.

Sins are only forgiven if God takes them away from the guilty heart/life. I can declare what the Lord has done in a Christian's life, but only God knows if the believer has sincerely repented of sins.

 

And if one has faith, but continues in grave sin, that person will still enter Heaven?

Even though nothing unclean may enter? </font>[/QUOTE]By their fruit you shall know them! If one states that he has faith, but does not produce the fruit of faith, then for what reason should his statement of faith override his acts.

If one has faith in Jesus, his belief in the almighty should change his behavior. If it doesn't change his behavior, what is the evidence of his faith?

Whatever one believes in controls what one does! If you believe in Law and Order, you act accordingly, but if you believe in lawlessness, your actions will prove it! You cannot believe in L&O and without understanding that the law has jurisdiction over your future. Likewise, you cannot believe in Jesus without understanding that Jesus is your judge. You will therefore change from sinner to saint according to your faith.

 

Yelsew,

Brother, its still just semantics. Faith is indeed what gets us to Heaven, but that is because faith conquers sin. Unless you deny that it is sin that caused Adam and Eve to be booted from the Garden, I do not see why you would disagree with me. A man who lives in sin and is unrepentant will not enter into everlasting beatitude. Unrepentant sin holds him back; he is saved in his faith. If life is a running track, sins are the hurdles, and faith is the ability to leap over them, with Heaven being the finish line.

 

That is right, Ray.

And that is why absolution in Confession requires an intent (or resolve) to avoid sin in the future and an expression of that resolve.

Father may withhold absolution if he believes that the confessing party is not repentant or does not truly resolve to avoid sin in the future. (A person living in adultry who refuses to give up the object of his affection, for example)

And absolution may be granted to someone who fakes repentance or fakes resolve to avoid future sin, but it is of no avail. The absolution would not be vaild, since it is God who truly knows our hearts.

These are the teachings of the Church concerning Confession and absolution.

 

"Faith conquers sin?" NO! the human spirit that has faith repents from sin! Repenting from it is a deliberate decision to no longer engage in sin, and to not succomb to the temptation to sin. That does not mean that sin is conquered, because sin bombards one all of one's natural life. Faith enables one to resist the temptation to sin. However if one does sin, one can confess that sin and receive forgiveness and thus the strength to resist the same sin the next time it comes calling.

I believe you are not understanding what Jesus' atonement for sin is all about.

Jesus paid the penalty for sin. Thus sin is not accounted against man for judgment.

Mans works are not sufficient for salvation, so works are not a factor either.

That leaves one element, FAITH. For by God's grace, you are saved through your faith in God, and not of anything you do, salvation is a free gift of God, not of works lest any one should boast.

With both sin and works eliminated from the salvation equation, that leaves FAITH ALONE as the only factor God uses whereby man is saved from the lake of fire, and saved into eternal life with His only begotten Son Jesus. By faith we pass from death into life.

With sins falling into the category of "works", the works of all men, saved or not, are tested as if by fire. Good works pass through the fire like as if they are gold, silver and prescious stones, that is they survive in their purest form. Bad works are consumed in the fire is if they are wood, hay, and stubble, that is, they do not survive, but end up as ashes.

That should be incentive enough to stop doing "bad works" (sin). And for the one who has faith, repentance from sin should be relatively easy because we have the Holy Spirit to help us.

 

trying2understand,

Thanks for enlightening me; my wife said the same thing. She said, 'No one would repeat the same sin if they were truely sorry, unless they were nuts.' {mentally incompetent} She was brought up in a Catholic home. You might say, 'I'm trying2understand.'