Baptist Commentator

Posted by Frank:

If it is grace only and faith only over and over, provide the complete harmonious evidence for this. You have not cited one New Testament example where one has been saved by grace only and faith over and over only. NOT ONE!

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Go back and read my posts on the grace of God. Salvation is all of grace provided by Christ alone. It is the gift of God. One must accept it by faith. If you believe not this message, you believe not the message of the Bible (Eph.2:8,9; Rom.6:23)

James says we are justifed by our works,not by faith only! James 2:24. James 2:19 says the devils believe and tremble but just because they believe they do not cease to be devils.

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The teaching of James does not contradict the teaching of Paul in Romans 4:
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

James teaches that works follows salvation. The true believer will have works as evidence of his salvation, not works as part of his salvation. Works being part of his salvation is contrary to the rest of Scripture and is not what James is teaching. Study the entire context of the book.

The rulers of the synagogue believed but would not confess because they feared the pharisees lest they should be put out of the temple for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. John 12:42,43. Jesus said unless a man confesses he cannot be saved. Mat. 10:32. It appears Jesus made a mistake as it is "grace only and faith only over and over."

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John 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
--There were many of the Pharisees that believed that Christ was the Messiah. For fear of the other Pharisees, their own peers, they did not openly confess Him. They loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. However there were two that did confess Him: Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea. The word confess, BTW, simply indicates believing. It is an open declaration of one's belief. It harmonizes perfectly with: "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved." Calling upon His name, confessing His name, believing in His name all have similar nuances of performing the same action.

Mat.10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.
--You connected this verse (Mat.10:32) with John 12:42,43. The latter verses in John are speaking of the Pharisees. In these verses in Matthew, Jesus is speaking to His disciples. You are not "rightly dividing the Word of truth." The reason I included verse 16 is to give the context? He is speaking to His disciples, sending them forth as witnesses. They are to confess His name before men, not to be ashamed of witnessing. This is speaking of discipleship, not salvation.

I have provided examples that include ALL the esssentials for salvation. They were quoted and referenced with all the scritures related to the topic.
I used ALL the scriptures that pertain to salvation of the sinner.

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ALL the Scriptures?? Are sure about that? You are not mistaken about that, are you? There's a few hundred verses, if not a few thousand verses that deal with salvation. Did you quote them all?

You selected scriptures that faith is essential with total disregard for the rest of the divine instructions. I pointed this out by posting scriptures that mention repentance saves without any reference to faith. I did the same for confession and baptism. They are as follows:
Repentance: Luke 13:3,5 Acts 11:18, II Tim. 2:25, Acts 17:30.
Confession: Romans 10:10, I John 4:2,Mat. 10:32.
Baptism: I Pet. 3:21,Acts 22:16.
You response to this argument. You are as silent as an oyster.

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I did not feel the need to provide an answer to EVERY reference in you list, as you rarely refute the answer provided. As I mentioned before: You provide lists without explanation. Explain the verses in the context of the book in which they are written for a meaningful discussion, and we can go from there. Thus far I have been providing an explanation to nearly all of your references, and you come back with the statement, "You are as silent as an oyster." Astonishing! Maybe you need to re-read what I have posted.

"Repentance: Luke 13:3,5 Acts 11:18; II Tim. 2:25; Acts 17:30
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
--I have included verse 4 here to give the context of the passage. The teaching that Jesus was giving was that the Jews were as much sinners, and just as guilty in sin, as the Galileans and those in Siloam were. Judgement would fall upon them also unless they repented. Of course, repentance is something one does when they believe. If one truly believes Jesus Christ is their Lord, they will indeed repent.

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
But why ignore the context. Let's quote verse 17 as well:
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
--God gave the gift of salvation to those "who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ." Verse 18 is the Apostles' conclusion of that event: God has granted them repentance unto life. What action did the Gentiles (the house of Cornelius) take? They simply believed, and that is all. Salvation comes to those that believe. Baptism follows salvation in EVERY case.

2 Tim.2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
--Look again at the context. The context is the character of the servant of the Lord, the pastor of the church in particular. Those that the pastor is dealing with ("those that oppose themselves"), we are not told about. This is not necessarily talking about salvation.

Acts 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:
31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
--The reason for repentance is clear. The day of judgement is coming. Again, a person repents when they believe. If there is no repentance at the time of belief, the belief is not genuine is it?

Confession: Romans 10:10, I John 4:2,Mat. 10:32.
Rom.10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
--Again, "Believe" is the key word here. Confession is simply an outward expression of believing.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
--Verse one starts out with the command to test the spirits to see whether they are of God, because many false prophets are gone out into the world. This is the context here. Verse 3 speaks of the spirit of antichrist. This passage is speaking of discerning who is a false teacher and who is not. It is NOT teaching about salvation. Again, you are not "rightly dividing the word of truth."

Mat.10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
--You have used this verse already. You are wearing it out. It is out of context. It speaks of discipleship, not salvation. You are not rightly dividing the word of truth.
DHK

Originally posted by Frank:
Ron:
The church is the saved. The saved are people. How do they know the truth. HOW? Tell me please. To state fact does not tell us HOW? Acts 2:47, I Tim 3:15. When you get through playing dodge ball over authority, maybe you will answer.
I have already made my affirmation. Why not make yours and PROVE IT!

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Frank, what you seem to have missed here is that your lists of various verses proves nothing.

Scripture requires interptretation.

To simply give a reference to a verse proves nothing ecause you interpreting it.

You make a claim to looking at Scripture as a whole, but when you are making a particular claim, you only pick out a few verses.

You get to pick the verses.
You get to tell yourself what they mean.
You get to compare them to other verses you pick.

So you see the pattern?

You are your own authority; not Scripture.

It's the sola scruptura way.

Sola Scriptura means "I get to pick the verses."

You have "proved" nothing except that for you the "truth" is what you say it is.

Ron

[ October 26, 2002, 09:00 AM: Message edited by: trying2understand ]

DHK:
You continue to use your same technique of apologetics. You try to explain that which s already known by the content of the message.Your statement about Mat. 10:32 is a case in point. Are you saying that someone other than a disciple will get to heaven. I would like the name of that example just like I would like the name of the person God saved by grace only and over and over again faith only.You can search today tomorrow and for a thousand years and you will not find one example in the Bible of a person being saved by grace only and over and over again faith only. If so name the PERSON! Just one! Furthermore, your contention about Mat. 10:32 will not stand when one considers the subject at hand, I have already posted that one too. Romans 10:10,IJohn 4:2.
You still have REFUSED to address the following:
1. Prove by the totality of the harmonious evidence baptism is not essential to salvation.
2. Prove baptism is not for the remission of sin by examining all the conversions and related scriptures on the subject of salvation. You have posted some related to faith but ignore the vast majority of the evidence that answers the divine question. What must I do to be saved? Acts 2:37;9:6;16:30. You have, examined PARTS of some of the conversions but not the whole context ot the totality of the conversions in the New Testament.
Yes I have posted all the evidence it concerns the conversions. I paraphrased two and they were referenced for all to examine. You were as silent as an oyster about them. Of course, an oyster does not have much to say.

Yes I posted the related material germain to the salvation of the sinner. IF Not, PROVE I HAVE NOT ANSWERED THE QUESTION.

You then try to tell people Jesus really did not mean one MUST BELIEVE REPENT CONFESS,AND BE BAPTIZED TO BE SAVED. However, Jesus in the scriptures posted REQUIRED IT!. John 8: 24, Luke 13:3, Mat. 10:32, Mark 16:16. The subject is salvation and all those things are essential to being saved. Jesus said so!.
You try to explain away repentance by the context where both jews and gentiles are present and then, try to"explain, I gues, why it is not necessary.
Here is a classic example of failure EXAMINE THE ESSESNTIAL SCRIPTURES. In Acts 17:30, The Bible says, " At the times of this ignorance God winked at: but now commandeth ALL Men everywhere to repent. I guess now you will attemtpt to " explain" why ALL MEN does not mean ALL MEN. I guess you forgot this passage about repentance. Are you implying an unrepentant sinner will get to heaven? If so,name that one too, while you are searching for the name of those saved by grace only and over and over again faith only.

Finally you said,"I did not feel the need to provide an answer to EVERY reference in your list, as you rarely refute the answer provided. As I mentioned before: You provide lists without explanation. Explain the verses in the context of the book in which they are written for a meaningful discussion, and we can go from there. Thus far I have been providing an explanation to nearly all of your references, and you come back with the statement, "You are as silent as an oyster." Astonishing! Maybe you need to re-read what I have posted."

You at least admit you do not feel it necessary to examine all the evidence. You admit you do not believe in personal dilligence in Bible study. II Tim. 2:15, Acts 17:11. Then, you say let me explain it to you." You have not addressed ALL THE CONVERSIONS. I POSTED ALL OF THEM. You made one feeble attempt to get out of jail to soon with the jailer in Acts 16:30 but you did not like verse 33 so you did not look at the rest of the evidence and harmonize.
You fail to consider remote context and all the scriptures germain to a topic. However, the Bible is a harmonious book if and only if one examines all the pertinent evidence and harmonizes it.
I have done so.
You still contend it is grace only and over and over again faith only. You do so without naming one example and ignoring the toality of the evidence available because you do not feel like it! You do so if the light of the Bible that teaches us one is justified by works,not by faith only Jmaes 2:24. By the way, this is the one and only time thi phrase is used in the Bible and it is NOT BY FAITH ONLY.
You ignore the scriptures posted that teach there are works other that meritorious. I am not going to quote them. If you feel like, it look them up! Titus 3:5, Gal 3:11, Romans 16:26.

Just a reminder, My propositon is still The Bible teaches thta water baptism is essential for the salvation of the sinner. Let me know when you find the baptist preacher in LaGrange that will sign the negative, but do not hold your breath!

Originally posted by Frank:

Finally you said,"I did not feel the need to provide an answer to EVERY reference in your list, as you rarely refute the answer provided. As I mentioned before: You provide lists without explanation. Explain the verses in the context of the book in which they are written for a meaningful discussion, and we can go from there. Thus far I have been providing an explanation to nearly all of your references, and you come back with the statement, "You are as silent as an oyster." Astonishing! Maybe you need to re-read what I have posted."

You at least admit you do not feel it necessary to examine all the evidence. You admit you do not believe in personal dilligence in Bible study.

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I admitted nothing of the kind, Frank. Go back and read my post. You make a false accusation here.
I said, as you posted, that I did not feel that I had to answer EVERY reference that posted. Go back and read the post. I did answer every reference in that post:

You selected scriptures that faith is essential with total disregard for the rest of the divine instructions. I pointed this out by posting scriptures that mention repentance saves without any reference to faith. I did the same for confession and baptism. They are as follows:
Repentance: Luke 13:3,5 Acts 11:18, II Tim. 2:25, Acts 17:30.
Confession: Romans 10:10, I John 4:2,Mat. 10:32.
Baptism: I Pet. 3:21,Acts 22:16.
You response to this argument. You are as silent as an oyster.

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You will find an answer to EVERY one of those Scriptures provided. You just have to read it Frank. I am afraid that you don't.
DHK

DHK:
Are belief and confessionthe same thing? Are belief and repentance the same thing? Are belief and baptism the same thing?
Furthermore, I was not quoting you about your scholarship and personal efforts. It is a rational conclusion based on what you have posted,said and the totality of the conversions and the harmonious evidence presented.
You IMPLY repentance and belief are two connected in likeness. Is this true?
YOU seem to IMPLY belief and confession are connected in likeness. Is this true? How do you know this?

RON:

If I am wrong, prove it by the same standard I made the error, The Bible. Now,if you please, answer the question requested of you. What is your standard of truth? How do I know it is true?
Ron, opinions, and questions are like noses,everyone has them. Try answering the points made from scripture.

Ron, rationality requires one to address scriptural topic with scriptuires that are related to the matter at hand. It also requires the one answering to search them, study them and answer with them. Ron, you have the same option as anyone else who has a brain God gave them.

I honestly do not understand what point you are trying to make. Do men have the obligation to know the truth? John 8: 32. Eph. 5:17.

I selected those scriptures because they address the question at hand. If you wish to answer the question with different ones. I assure you, IF and when you post them, I will search, study and examine them to see if those things are so. Acts 17:11.

Frank, what you seem to have missed here is that your lists of various verses proves nothing.

Scripture requires interptretation.

To simply give a reference to a verse proves nothing ecause you interpreting it.

You make a claim to looking at Scripture as a whole, but when you are making a particular claim, you only pick out a few verses.

You get to pick the verses.
You get to tell yourself what they mean.
You get to compare them to other verses you pick.

So you see the pattern?

You are your own authority; not Scripture.

It's the sola scruptura way.

Sola Scriptura means "I get to pick the verses."

You have "proved" nothing except that for you the "truth" is what you say it is.

Ron

1. List of verse are references to answewr the question. If one stidies,examimes and seaserches the references, he then is able to know the truth. The Failure to do so, implies the one receiving the list is not interestede in making ratinal conclusions based on evidence. Which are yoy RON, rational or irrational?

2. Ron, I have posted the scriptures germain to the topic or question. It is illogical and irrational to post scriptures that do not relate in any context to the question. For example, if a question about music in worship is asked, I am certainly not going to reply with scripture related to homosexuality. It is not germain to the topic. Again, if my lists of references on the topic are incorrect, you should post to refute it, not use unsubstantiated or personal opinion. This is irrational and illogical.

3.As for the you pick diatribe, one must use those scritures related to the topic in order to answer.

As for the sola scriptura comment, one must use the whole counsel of God to answer questions of spiritual importance. God said this is the purpose of scripture. II Tim. 3:16,17, Psalms 119;160, Acts 20:27.

How does anyone answer for the hope that is in him with meekness and fear without using God's word?
Again, your thought process escapes me as does your logic of your post.

Ron, do you have someone else tell you what the Bible means and which scriptures to study and ones not to study? Is this the implication of your post? If so,why? Do you not have the same mental capacity as the one who tells you these things?

Originally posted by Frank:

Are belief and confessionthe same thing?

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Confession is the outward expression of belief.

Are belief and repentance the same thing?

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Repentance is an act of turning toward God, and turning from sin, an initial act that takes place when one believes.

Are belief and baptism the same thing?

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Absolutely Not!! Belief in the shed blood of Christ brings about salvation, a gift of God. Baptism is work of man, done in obedience to Christ, but a work nevertheless. Man is not saved by works.
DHK

[ October 27, 2002, 06:33 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

DHK:
You said,"Go back and read my posts on the grace of God. Salvation is all of grace provided by Christ alone. It is the gift of God. One must accept it by faith. If you believe not this message, you believe not the message of the Bible (Eph.2:8,9; Rom.6:23).

Answer: Abraham was justified by a working active faith. James 2:21-24. By the way Abraham lived under the old covenant and is not subject to the New Testament of Christ. This is not a conversion found in Acts of the New Testament. However, you have your harmonius answer. Again, you claimed grace only and over and over faith only. The Scriptures teach not so even in this old testaement example. For more on this subject, read Hebrews 11:8,9, Gen. 22: 1-17.
Morover, if you search the entire account of the old testament examples each one justified had an active obedient faith. NO EXCEPTIONS! NO! If not, NAME ONE! Notice the harmomny of faith in the old testament and the New. It is always working active faith that justifies. Again,Paul's account of Romans 4 is in perfect harmony with James and the old testament patriarchs. Faith does indeed justfify but not by faith only!. This is not found in James, Romans or anywhere else in the Bible. James, Paul, Abraham and the old testament patriarchs are not confussed. YOU ARE!!!

You said,"John 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
43 For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.
--There were many of the Pharisees that believed that Christ was the Messiah. For fear of the other Pharisees, their own peers, they did not openly confess Him. They loved the praise of men more than the praise of God. However there were two that did confess Him: Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea. The word confess, BTW, simply indicates believing. It is an open declaration of one's belief. It harmonizes perfectly with: "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved." Calling upon His name, confessing His name, believing in His name all have similar nuances of performing the same action.

ANSWER:The words for believe and confess are not the same. Confess is from the greek word homologeo meaning acknowledge or consent. The word in the text preceeding this word is NOT. This simply means they would not acknowledge or submit to him.

Believed is from the greek pisteou. To entrust one's spiritual well being. Mental ascent will not save. JAMES 2:19 ARE DEVILS SAVED BECAUSE THEY BELIEVE ONLY( MENTAL ASCENT). Mat. 7:21, John 3:36, II Thes 1: 6-9, Hebrews 5:8,9 refute your contentionas well as the context and related passages.

You said,The word confess, BTW, simply indicates believing. It is an open declaration of one's belief. It harmonizes perfectly with: "Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved." Calling upon His name, confessing His name, believing in His name all have similar nuances of performing the same action.

Answer: Again,this error is a result of not searching the totality of the evidence available on the subject. The entire list of scriptures on this subject are the following: Romans 10:13, Acts 2:21 and Acts 22:16. I will quote the TOTALITY OF THE EVIDENCE AND THUS, THE HARMONY OF IT.
Romans 10:13.13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 2:21. 21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Acts 22:16.6And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
The Bible clearly connects baptism with calling on the Lord.The three thousand on Pentecost and Paul in these passages. The phrase " calling on the name of the Lord" is an appeal. Baptim is a part of the appeal or callingo on God for salvation. I Pet. 3:21. Harmonious with the rest of the scriptures.

You said, Of course, repentance is something one does when they believe. If one truly believes Jesus Christ is their Lord, they will indeed repent.
Answer: The same inspired scriptures that teach one must repent teach that one must believe, John 8:24, Confess, Romans 10;10, and be baptized, Acts 2:38.
Again, you accept part of the inspired writings but reject others.

You said Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
But why ignore the context. Let's quote verse 17 as well:
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
--God gave the gift of salvation to those "who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ." Verse 18 is the Apostles' conclusion of that event: God has granted them repentance unto life. What action did the Gentiles (the house of Cornelius) take? They simply believed, and that is all. Salvation comes to those that believe. Baptism follows salvation in EVERY case.

Answer: The context teaches both groups were baptized for unto the remission of sins. Acts 2:38, Acts 10:48;11:4-18. verse 14 Peter proclaimed the Words wherby thou and all thy house shall be saved. What did Peter say in words when the Holy Spirit fell at the beginning. He said, when asked men and brethren what shalll we do? vs, 37.IMPLICATION OF THE HARMONIOUS EVIDENCE:UNLESS THE BILBE CONTRADICTS ITSELF!!! He answered and said, repent and be baptized EVERYONE OF YOU IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST for the remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. EVERY SINGLE ACCOUNT OF CONVERSION IN THE NEW TESTAMENT TEACHES US THIS TO BE TRUE. If this is not the case God is a respecter of persons, Peter said he was not. Acts 10:34,35, Gal. 3:26-29.

If Cornelious was saved when the Holy Spirit fell he was SAVED WITHOUT FAITH,NOT WITH FAITH. As the account IN ORDER, vs.4, teaches us Peters speech was interrupted at the BEGINNING, vs.15. The Greek word beginning is ARCHE meaning the commencement of an event. One must hear the word to have faith . Romans 10;17. Therefore, he could not have heard all the words to have faith for salvation. Indeed, context is so important.
You wanted context study and original language, I obeyed!!
Again, the sum of thy words are truth. Psalms 119:160.

DHK:
I have two questions. They are form the last post. They are as follows:

You IMPLY repentance and belief are two connected in likeness. Is this true?

YOU seem to IMPLY belief and confession are connected in likeness. Is this true? How do you know this?

Why is it when a Protestant quotes Scripture to support doctrine he is accused of using his private judgement to interpret it. But when a Roman Catholic quotes his doctrine he says that it is the magisterium of the church that tells him what it means. But didnt he at one time use his own private judgement to decide that he is going to put his faith in the church to do his thinking for him?
Doesnt our belief, in the end, rest on an act of our own judgement, and can never attain any higher certainty than whatever that may be able to give us, whether it is a decision to let the Holy Spirit interpret Scripture or the Catholic Church?
Who told you to put your faith in the Church, and why did you decide to do so? Your submission to the Church of Rome rests ultimately on an act of private judgement.

Frank,
Perhaps this information on repentance will be helpful to you.

The Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology:
REPENTANCE:
The most common term in the Old Testament for repentance is suÆuÆb; the verbal forms appear well over 1,050 times, although translated ?repent? only 13 times, and the substantive ?repentance? occurs only once in the New International Version. More commonly the translation is ?turn? or ?return.? A related term is naµh\am, which is translated three times as ?repent? in the New International Version. In the New Testament, the most common verb is metanoeoµ (33 times) and the noun metanoia (20 times). A synonym metamelomai is once translated ?repent? (Matt. 21:32).
Two requisites of repentance included in suÆuÆb are ?to turn from evil, and to turn to the good.? Most critical theologically is the idea of returning to God, or turning away from evil. If one turns away from God, apostasy is indicated. Three times Ezekiel included God?s call to the people of Israel: ?Repent! Turn from your idols and renounce all your detestable practices!? (14:6); ?Repent! Turn away from all your offenses? (18:30); ?Turn! Turn from your evil ways? (33:11). Such a call was characteristic of the prophets (see, e.g., Isa. 45:22; 55:7; Joel 2:12?13). The Septuagint underlines this idea by usually translating suÆuÆb by epi(apo-)strephoµ (to turn about, or to turn away from). To be abandoned are both evil intentions and evil deeds, and both motive and conduct are to be radically changed. A striking example is found in Isaiah 1:16?17: ?Take your evil deeds out of my sight! Stop doing wrong, learn to do right! Seek justice, encourage the oppressed. Defend the cause of the fatherless, plead the case of the widow.?
One may detect two sides to this turning/converting. There is the free sovereign act of God?s mercy, and a conscious decision to turn to God (a turning that goes beyond sorrow and contrition).
Confession of sins is both commanded and frequently illustrated (e.g., in the penitential prayers, as Pss. 25 and 51). When one is guilty of various sins, ?he must confess in what way he has sinned? in order to receive atonement and forgiveness (Lev. 5:5; 26:40?42). Thus, confession belongs to repentance, and is needed for divine forgiveness (cf. 1 John 1:9). A great prophecy/ promise is given in the Book of Isaiah: ?The Redeemer will come to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their sins? (59:20).

In the New Testament, the key term for repentance is metanoia. It has two usual senses: a "change of mind" and "regret/remorse."
In the Synoptic Gospels metanoia indicated "turning away from sin" (Mark 1:4), made imperative by the nearness of judgment (see Matt. 3:10, "already"), despite having Abraham as ancestor. John the Baptist called for a break with the old and a turning to God.
According to Matthew 3, John was not specific about "the fruits of repentance," except in his call for baptism with water. But the Lukan narrative includes the question of people, "What should we do then?" To the crowds, the tax collectors, and the soldiers, John spelled out specific ways in which the validity of their repentance should be demonstrated (Luke 3:10?14). Thus, metanoia was to be concretized by the baptism of repentance (Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3), and was to be evidenced by the changed attitudes and deeds of the respondents.
In both Mark (1:15) and Matthew (4:17) Jesus began his public proclamation with the call "Repent." Mark connects it with believing the good news; Matthew, with the nearness of the kingdom of heaven. While Luke does not include this initial call, he notes several strong calls for repentance in Jesus' teachings (see esp. 10:13; 11:32; 13:3, 5; 17:3?4). The Book of Acts often connects metanoiawith remission of sins (see 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 8:22; 26:18, 20). There are strong reminiscences here of John's proclamations, but one striking difference is in the audiences. While John addressed Jewish hearers only, those in Acts were comprised of Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles. The first four incidents feature Peter as speaker; the last text refers to Paul's statement about his mission. In addition, Paul is said to have preached to both Jews and Gentiles/Greeks to "turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus" (20:21). These two elements are also found in the Markan account, where Jesus called people to "repent and believe [in the good news about himself]" (Mark 1:15). Further, metanoiais joined with epistrephoµ in Acts 3:19 (Peter) and 26:20 (Paul). Thus, repentance leads to conversion, and "deeds consistent with repentance" are to follow.
In Paul's letters the verb metanoeoµ occurs once only (2 Cor. 12:21) and the noun metanoia four times (Rom. 2:4; 2 Cor. 7:9, 10; 2 Tim. 2:25). The negative word "unrepentant" appears in Romans 2:5. Many conclude that for Paul the more comprehensive term "faith" (pistis) and "to believe" (pisteuoµ) include the idea of repentance. As noted, Luke joined them in his report of Paul's preaching in Ephesus (Acts 20:21).
Walter M. Dunnett

As noted before, I believe with the author, that the term "faith" and "believe" include the idea of repentance.
DHK

[ October 28, 2002, 03:05 AM: Message edited by: DHK ]

DHK:
I believe God and the Bible. He connected salvation with faith repentance and baptism. I have quoted all of these. The same Bible provided by God as deliverd by the same Holy Spirit also teaches us baptism is connected to belief. Mark 16:16, Acts 18:8, Acts 16:30, Acts 8:29-40.

Belief itself, according to Jesus, is a work of God WE MUST DO. John 7:28,29.

Question: What is the name the person saved by grace only and over and over faith only in the New Testament?

Question: What is the name of the Old Testament Patriarch who was not justified by an active working faith?

DHK:
I believe God and the Bible. He connected salvation with faith repentance and baptism. I have quoted all of these. The same Bible provided by God as deliverd by the same Holy Spirit also teaches us baptism is connected to belief. Mark 16:16, Acts 18:8, Acts 16:30, Acts 8:29-40.

Belief itself, according to Jesus, is a work of God WE MUST DO. John 7:28,29.

Question: What is the name the person saved by grace only and over and over faith only in the New Testament?

Question: What is the name of the Old Testament Patriarch who was not justified by an active working faith?

DHK:
I believe God and the Bible. He connected salvation with faith repentance and baptism. I have quoted all of these. The same Bible provided by God as deliverd by the same Holy Spirit also teaches us baptism is connected to belief. Mark 16:16, Acts 18:8, Acts 16:30, Acts 8:29-40.

Belief itself, according to Jesus, is a work of God WE MUST DO. John 7:28,29.

Question: What is the name the person saved by grace only and over and over faith only in the New Testament?

Question: What is the name of the Old Testament Patriarch who was not justified by an active working faith?

Originally posted by Frank:
DHK:
I believe God and the Bible. He connected salvation with faith repentance and baptism. I have quoted all of these. The same Bible provided by God as deliverd by the same Holy Spirit also teaches us baptism is connected to belief. Mark 16:16, Acts 18:8, Acts 16:30, Acts 8:29-40.

Belief itself, according to Jesus, is a work of God WE MUST DO. John 7:28,29.

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Jesus said that "believing on Him that sent me" was the only "work" that one could do. It was a play on words, since we know that there are no works that a man can do to merit eternal life. It is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast (Eph.2:8,9). Here is what Jesus said:

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Question: What is the name the person saved by grace only and over and over faith only in the New Testament?

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The Philippian jailor was saved by faith alone.
Cornelius was saved by faith alone.
The Ethiopian Eunuch was saved by faith alone.
The 3,000 in Acts 2:41 were saved by faith alone.
Every believer in the New Testament was saved by faith alone.

Question: What is the name of the Old Testament Patriarch who was not justified by an active working faith?

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Read through Hebrews 11. They were all justified by faith alone. But Abraham is the best example.

Romans 4:1-5
4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

What about Abraham? Was he justified by works? "If he were justified by works, he has whereof to glory, but not before God. Works could not justify Abraham before God. It was impossible for works to do so. That is what the Scriptures say here.
But what does the Scripture say? (verse 3) "Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. How did Abraham attain righteousness? By faith. It was by faith and by faith alone. The following verses clarify that position.

Verse four explains: To him that works is the reward reckoned or deserved. When a man works he earns a wage. It is not given to him as a gift; he earns it. He deserves it. To him that works is the "reward" (wage) reckoned (earned). But to him that works not, but believes on him that justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

What must a man do to attain righteousness? NOTHING! but believe! He must believe on Him that justifies the ungodly. Believe! That is all. Nothing more. Baptism no where enters into this equation. One must simply believe on the one who "justifies the ungodly." Faith does have an object. The object of my faith is Jesus Christ, who died for my sins, and provided a way that I might stand justified before God the Father.
DHK

DHK:
You said,"Jesus said that "believing on Him that sent me" was the only "work" that one could do. It was a play on words, since we know that there are no works that a man can do to merit eternal life. It is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast (Eph.2:8,9). Here is what Jesus said:

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Answer: the definition of belief from the original greek word is AN ACTION VERB. The Word is Pisteou. This was not a play on words but a direct answer to the question of What must WE DO TO WORK THE WORKS OF GOD.The language is in present voice and does not support your contention. This is simply unsupported by scripture.

Answer: The Bible teaches there are more than one kind of works. 1. Works of the Law. Gal. 3:11
2. Works of Righteosuness. Titus 3:5
3. Works of an obedient faith. Hebrews 11:6, Romans 16:26.
4. Works of Merit. Eph. 2:8,9.
Again, you simply ignore the whole counsel of God. Acts 20:27.
You said,"The Philippian jailor was saved by faith alone.
Cornelius was saved by faith alone.
The Ethiopian Eunuch was saved by faith alone.
The 3,000 in Acts 2:41 were saved by faith alone.
Every believer in the New Testament was saved by faith alone."
Answer: The Bible says,In Acts 2:38-41, 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
The context teaches that those three thousand heard the word Acts 2:38, were baptized, vs. 41 in order to save themselves vs.40. This is how all men call on the name of the Lord for Salvation. See Acts 2:21, Romans 10:13, Acts 22;16. Again, the totality of the evidence harmonizes perfectly.
2. Answer: The Bible teaches that the eunoich was saved by preaching Jesus, belief, confession, and baptism in the context. The Bible says, In Acts 8:29-40,"35Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. 39And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. 40But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.
Acts 8:29 saved by preaching Jesus.
Vs. 37 saved by his belief.
VS. 37 saved by his confession.
VS. 38. saved by his baptism.
Again, the context and the harmony with other accounts teach that it is not by grace only and over and over again faith only.

The jailer was not saved by faith only. The Bible says in Acts 16:30-33. 30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house. 33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
Again, he believed and was baptized consistent and in harmony with ALL THE CONVERSION ACCOUNTS IN THE BIBLE.

Cornelius was not saved by faith only. The Bible teaches he was baptized as directed by the word of God. Acts 11:15. In Acts 10:48, The Bible says, 48And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
Again, harmonious with the scriptures and the examples of Conversion in the New Testament.
You said,"Read through Hebrews 11. They were all justified by faith alone. But Abraham is the best example.

Romans 4:1-5
4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness."
Answer: The Bible says, in James 2:21-26,"1Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. 25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? 26For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
The Bible men are not saved by meritorious works. EPh. 2:8,9. However, they are saved bya working obedient active faith. Yes,indeed,read Hebrews 11:6-8. The Bibe says, " 6But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith. 8By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.
Each time faith is mentioned Henrews 11 it is accompanied by a VERB OF ACTION. Notice, none of these acts were meritorius. In each case, there faith was a working obedient active faith. NO EXCEPTIONS! NONE!
You said,"What must a man do to attain righteousness? NOTHING! but believe! He must believe on Him that justifies the ungodly. Believe! That is all. Nothing more. Baptism no where enters into this equation. One must simply believe on the one who "justifies the ungodly." Faith does have an object. The object of my faith is Jesus Christ, who died for my sins, and provided a way that I might stand justified before God the Father."
DHK
Answer: The Bible says in Pslams 119:172, "72My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness." The Bible in Luke 1:5,6, "5There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. The Bible says, in Rev. 22:14,"4Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Which commandment can you not obey and get into heaven? The Bible says ALL GOD'S COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOSUNESS. BOOK, CHAPTER AND VERSE PLEASE!

Originally posted by Frank:
Which commandment can you not obey and get into heaven? The Bible says ALL GOD'S COMMANDMENTS ARE RIGHTEOSUNESS. BOOK, CHAPTER AND VERSE PLEASE!

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1 John 1:7-10
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

1. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all our sins, not our works, not baptism, but the blood!
2. We are not perfect; we are sinners (1:8,10).
3. If we say that we have no sin:
A. We deceive ourselves.
B. The truth is not in us.
C. We make Christ a liar.
D. His Word is not in us.

Which commandment can you not obey and get into heaven?
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
--Haven't you ever sinned just once, Frank? Ever told just one lie? I am sure you have. If you say to me that you haven't, then you just lied, for in Romans 3:4, it tells me that all men are liars; only God is true. That being so, you are just as guilty as breaking every law.
Which commandment can you not obey and get into heaven?
You are found guilty of breaking them all, Frank. That is why it is only the blood of Christ that can wash away your sin, and not baptism.
DHK

DHK:
You said,"Which commandment can you not obey and get into heaven?
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all."
Answer: This does not answer the question which commandment one can break and get into heaven. The passage posted is in reference to law keeping as per the Old Testament. We are under the law to Christ. I Cor. 9:21. It is not the same law system as the Old Law. James 1:25.
You said, "Haven't you ever sinned just once, Frank? Ever told just one lie? I am sure you have. If you say to me that you haven't, then you just lied, for in Romans 3:4, it tells me that all men are liars; only God is true. That being so, you are just as guilty as breaking every law."

Answer: All Men sin. Romans 3:23. However, the law of Christ does not require perfection but faithfulness. If one repents of his sins,as he walks in the light the blood contnuously cleanses us from our sins. I John 1:7. You answered your own question in your post.

Men stand condemned before God when they fail to repent of their sins and also his practice of it that condemns him. I John 1:7-9.

How good does a person have to be to be good enough to be called faithful?

Well, ten pages into this thread, and my third or fourth request for the name of a pre-reformation Baptist commentator or theologian that clearly articulated the Baptist distinctives, and still not one serious attempt to answer.

This isn't a question that should require a lot of research. I'm sure that in Baptist seminaries they study many fine prereformation commentaries clearly expositing the Baptist distinctives.

Could someone help me out with a name?

Ron