The diffrence of Tongues in Acts and at Corinth

oops! Double posted!

[ July 23, 2002, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: Naomi ]

 

You are biased about this, because you equate speaking in tongues to a cult[Naomi]

"No, you are wrong, as I've heard about "tongues" for many years. My first "encounter" of the worst kind was in the early '70's when a group of charismatics(not 'onenesses'), blew into town & stirred up all kinds of trouble for the different churches in that area, creating havoc right & left.

The reason I posted what I did in the demon-topic is because the two(tongues/demonic activity), usually go together. I truly believe one puts themselves at risk with a demon spirit, dabbling in things that God has not promised. I've seen too many who claim this gift, become excessively agitated when anything is said to correct their error. And I've seen many lives destroyed by this "gift", but it never became personal with me until 3yrs. ago when it got to my son.

All of you "tongue-talkers" have made comments such as "try it, you'll like it; or "I really feel sorry for you"; or "you don't know what you're missing", etc. but that is not what the Bible teaches. What y'all have is NOT of God.

 

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:

All of you "tongue-talkers" have made comments such as "try it, you'll like it; or "I really feel sorry for you"; or "you don't know what you're missing", etc. but that is not what the Bible teaches. What y'all have is NOT of God.

Granny, It is not of God that your town was divided about this. It is not of God to be in a controlling group that your son is in. I agree. The way you have described the character traits of the people you have encountered that speak in tongues, is not the same group of people that I fellowship with.
I have fellowship with different denominations and we walk in agreement, not because we all speak in tongues, but because we have the same purpose. That is to declare the word of God to the ones who are lost and dying world, who have no hope outside Jesus Christ. We serve the same God, and proclaim the same message.
May God Bless You,
Naomi

 

...But cannot keep the "same" conditions set forth by Paul in 1Cor.14. (See previous post)
DHK

 

DHK,
What more is there to say? I have not changed your mind, and you have not changed my mind. Where else can we take this?

Pray for me if you think I am in error. We stand or fall before our Maker. Have faith in the Holy Spirit to lead me into all truth.

Until then, I am going to claim Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost.

God Bless You,
Naomi

 

I hope you aren't implying that all who do not speak in tongues, are lost souls. I believe that for some, speaking in tongues is a fact and is bibical however when a whole church does this, that is another story. Tongues is a GIFT the same a being a prophet and whole churches were never all prophets, so the same with tongue speaking.

Why do most, if not all, churches that speak in tongues, have to have a loud speaking preacher AND always plenty of loud music before they can start speaking in tounges? My family on my deceased Mother's side speak in tongues but I have never heard them speak as such in general without the pre-emphasis on emotion having come first.

God Bless...........Alex

 

If you are a believer and read the Bible you are not hearing an unknown tongue. A tongue is a language and I can give you a good example of what I am talking about because I live with an unknown tongue.

My son was born Deaf and he talks in a language called American Sign Language. He cannot talk where you can understand him as he uses his hands to convey what he wants to say and has been doing this for 21 years. Now to understand how he has been taught to communicate I too had to learn his language. He talks to you in an unknown tongue as does anyone else whose language you cannot understand. I'm his interpreter and can tell you what he says to you and sign what you said to him.
This is no different than what happened at Pentecost as each man heard in his own language what the Apostles were saying even though they were speaking their own language. Read it carefully and that is only conclusion that is logical. To a person who is a non believer this is an unknown tongue until they are born again. Until then they are not concerned with God or those things pertaining to him... Brother Glen

 

Originally posted by Alex:
Why do most, if not all, churches that speak in tongues, have to have a loud speaking preacher AND always plenty of loud music before they can start speaking in tounges? My family on my deceased Mother's side speak in tongues but I have never heard them speak as such in general without the pre-emphasis on emotion having come first.

Wow Alex!
Excellent question

Here are some of my questions:

1. Why did David have to act so emotional in his worship toward God? I mean he danced before the Lord with all his might. He even said he would get more undignified then that!
2. Why did people accuse the disciples of being drunk? I mean were they that radical when the Holy Spirit fell upon them?
3. Why would Paul praise the Lord so loudly while in prison? He was singing so loud, that it disturbed the other prisoners!
4. Why do people get so emotional when they discover that Jesus has set them free? Such as crying or rejoicing?
5. Why are christians talking about loving one another all the time? Do they really have to work up their emotions like that?
6. Why do some christians get misty eyed when talking about what Jesus has done for them? I mean what's the big deal? I know of people who get more emotional about football games! ( isn't that more important to get emotional about? )
They scream and shout...my goodness!
7. Why do christians have to be so glad in the midst of chaos? Are they really dealing in reality? It just doesn't make any sense!!!

I have so many questions as well! If I were you, I would stay away from those tongue-speaking, Praise shouting, dancing, and emotional churches!
They are certainly not acting like biblical christians that we read about in the bible!
They should all keep quiet, and quietly read their bible, and stay in their churches where they are safe from the "world", and they can all talk about how much they are saved!

Then they can be the "perfect church"

Unfortunatley, they would be much too inward to see anyone get saved, because they are too busy arguing about what the correct bible to read is, and if they were saved because they were chosen, or if they are saved because they chose to believe and repent, and if they will be raptured now or later, or if Jesus has died for only one denomination!

All said tongue-in-cheek, but I hope yu canse the absurdity in all of this! There's a world out there that needs to know the hope that we have in Jesus. How can they hear without a preacher? How are they going to know unless we, as christians, are out sharing the good news? Let's take the higher road, and stop worrying about all this, and go out and live out the gospel, instead of taking all the specks out of our brethrens eyes.
Watch the news tonight. You tell me...Whats more important?

God Bless (Hope your not offended)
Naomi

 

Not in the least!! How often did Jesus speak in tongues? According to you, He should have so all could understand and did He yell and preach hell fire and damnation as most tongue speaking churches do. You have a good group on TV such as Benny Hinn, Baker, Swaggart and a host of others who do more damage than good. A survey was run a few years back on all that come to the alter under this emotional state and less than one percent even joined a church. As I was growing up in this atmosphere, more people left than stayed saying they couldn't understand. Now to understand, you have to be a tongue speaker and then you understand? How does a sinful person ever get the bibical truth? How many out of ALL the great bibical persons spoke in tongues and did the Aposles keep acting like they were drunk...NO! Yes, they were filled with the Holy Ghost but to speak in the TONGUES of neighboring countries so as to be able to spread the Gospel. This was not "giberish" as it is now, but an actual language like the other post refered to(sign language). Even with his thought, we all know that sign language exists but it didn't way back when. Indians had sign language. Is that bibical also? I believe as I said that a few selected ones by God can speak in an unknown tongue but not a whole church and did the whole church back then speak in tongues? I am not aware of a scripture stating this. So, I guess there is two sides of this coin. Neither you nor Brother Glen stated if we are hell bound if we don't speak in tongues. The Oneness cult will say YES.
Also there is nothing wrong with a happy Amen but to hear a church full doing this tongue think, you can't even hear the Preacher. There should be REVERENCE for GOD in a church. Listen to the sermon fully and be less noisy so your sinful neighbor can hear the Preacher, when he preaches from God's Word. AMEN!!

God Bless...........Alex

 

Alex,
I checked out your homepage, and I totally agree with everything I read about Christian Unity Church! If you are attending there, it sounds like a healthy place to be.

You are correct in stating that I do not believe you need to speak in tongues to go to heaven. I am not a part of a group that teaches hell and brimstone. Although I do think it is important to show people why they need to be saved. If we can show people how we have broken the Laws of God, and it is impossible to get to heaven by any other way other than trusting in Jesus alone, then we are preaching the truth!

You also stated: A survey was run a few years back on all that come to the alter under this emotional state and less than one percent even joined a church.

This is so true! Emotional conversions are what I call "False Conversions" they are conversions based on feelings alone. It is like the seed and the sower, these conversions are short-lived, because they have no root, they have no foundation to build upon. When the trials come, they quickly fall away. Unless people truly repent, and they are grounded in God's word, and in prayer, they become tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine. We need to be as radical believer's as the disciples were. We need to read it, meditate upon it, then live it out in our daily lives.
This is what my beliefs are!
God Bless,
Naomi

 

Can each and everyone of you think back to when you were not a Christian? I can and the scriptures at that time to me were in an unknown tongue. I didn't care anything about the things of God or any of his people, let alone church. The Bible was just a book to tell you there is no way you are going to heaven because every law in that book you broke. Why worry about it you are hell bound anyway. Then something happens and you are born again and your eyes are open and then you can see. Not only can you see you begin to read the Bible but now you have a new set of spiritual eyes and a new spiritual heart. Now you begin to desire the things of God and the Bible which at one time was written in an unknown tongue begins to unfold before you in a new glorious way that you never saw before. You tell your friends and probably lose some because you are not the same person you use to be. The things you use to love, lose there flavor and you find you have new friends of the household of God. You don't get any joy in the way you use to carry yourself about because now you speak with a new tongue... A heavenly language. Your yearnings are talking with others like yourself that also speak this heavenly language and church now becomes something you longer run from but joyfully embrace. To the world it is still and unknown tongue and they are still searching for the questions of life. To us who are made priests and kings unto God and made to sit in heavenly places
we hear the beautiful language of God and his Son Jesus Christ who paid for our sins, still an unknown tongue to the world of those not born again!... Brother Glen

 

isn't "unknown tongue" just speaking a foreign language??? i know that sounds so simple...example...a greek praising God in a roman church in his native greek language? i was saved in a pentacostal church that believed you werent saved if you didnt speak in tongues...making the assumption you didnt have the holy spirit if you didnt speak in tongues...i got saved in spite of their erroneus teaching. and no i dont believe speaking in tongues exists in the present day as the early church knew the gift...not sure what people are speaking nowadays but from what ive heard personally it sounds like nothing more than strange confusing utterances of no known present day language. the gift of tongues was to edify OTHERS not ourselves...and im not sure but wasnt it specifically intended as a witness to the Jews??? please correct me if im wrong...

 

Now we are in agreement and as you said, even if some tongue speaking churches, especially the Oneness, want to do their thing, then "so be it". I in no way want anyone to think that to speak as they/you do is a sin, maybe a grossly misunderstood part of the Word for some, but ok. As you said, lets spread the Gospel in a way that ALL can understand. So, here it is in a nutshell: Believe with all your heart and soul, that Jesus Christ is God and the He is the only way to Heaven and to accept Him as your Lord and Savior. After that, find a church YOU are comfortable with and make sure that they do not ADD to the scriptures such as the Mormons and a few others. Who can lose with Christ as their savior?

God Bless.............Alex

 

Brother Glen,
In the context of being Born-Again, you are so right! Only when our spiritual eyes are open, can we understand the scriptures. When the Holy Spirit draws us in to have ears to hear and eyes to see! How beautifully stated Brother Glen.

Doug44,
No, you are not wrong! Every man is right in his own eyes!

Alex,
Amen! I agree with you!

DHK stated:
Do we then sacrifice doctrine at the altar of unity?

Yes! Only if we are serving the same God!

God Bless,
Naomi

 

To add a little to my previous post, it is a SIN for those who say that we who do not speak in tongues are hell bound. This same group, Oneness, also say that those who do not beleive in the Trinity are hell bound as we say they are. We will never be in unity because of the INFINITE ways we interpet the Word even though many claim to have the whole handle on it. If some do, as they say, then why do all accept that there are many mysteries about God that only HE knows and we will know in Heaven, not on earth? I'm a little on the mysteries!!

God Bless............Alex

[ July 26, 2002, 12:13 AM: Message edited by: Alex ]

 

Alex,
Actually the Oneness(UPC Churches) are Jesus only. They do not believe in the Trinity.

By the way.....Where is Oneness? He is the one that began this thread! Perhaps we Trinitarians are the ones that were wrong, and Oneness got raptured !!! Hee! Hee!
Naomi

 

Naomi and Alex, I for one want unity as much as any other Christian but I can't seek unity over truth. The Bible is so clear to me about tongues that I just want to scream sometimes at how people on this board will make a pretzel out of scripture to fit tongues into the church of 2002. Speaking in tongues for the modern Christian is kind of like eating chocolate. It tastes sooo good that it must be OK. Speaking in tongues feels so right that it is worth ignoring scripture and twisting other scripture to do. Unfortunetly, unlike eating chocolate, speaking in tongues is not OK, because the gift is not in operation and hasn't been since 70-100AD.
Alex, you said that you thought tongues were a sign to the jews and you were right. Paul says that straight out in 1 Cor 14 and even quotes Isaiah 28 to make sure the reader understands. Please read Isaiah 28 and see that it is a chapter telling of the pending destruction of Isreal. The gift of tongues were the sign that pointed to that destruction, and in 70Ad the the Jews were removed from their land and so the "sign" that pointed to that event ended. That is why when Paul says that tongues will end or cease, he used a verb that meant, "fade out on their own". It all works so well together for anyone who can just take a look at it. I pray that those of you who read this who speak in Tongues will take a closer look and see that speaking in tongues is over and that God is reachable in the language you speak, and when you talk to him in words that you don't understand that, in the words of Paul, your mind is unfruitful.

In Love and Truth,
Brian

[ July 26, 2002, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: The Briguy ]