The diffrence of Tongues in Acts and at Corinth

]Originally posted by The Briguy:
[QB]Naomi and Alex, I for one want unity as much as any other Christian but I can't seek unity over truth.

You mean, you can't be in unity with anyone who does not fit into your own interpretation of the scriptures.

the gift is not in operation and hasn't been since 70-100AD.

I beg to differ, it is in operation today. Just because people have seen this gift used in the wrong way (just as they did in the New Testament) does not negate the gift being authentic.

Please read Isaiah 28

I have studied this, as well as Deut. 28

God is reachable in the language you speak, and when you talk to him in words that you don't understand that, in the words of Paul, your mind is unfruitful.

You are absolutely correct! We do not have to reach God by speaking in tongues. It is also true that our minds are unfruitful. Our Faith is built up when we speak in the Holy Ghost. It is fruitful for our spirit, not our flesh!
Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost.
I remember one of the disciples telling Jesus that there were some who were preaching the gospel that were not hanging with them, Jesus said to leave them alone, whoever is not against them is for them. I cannot recall exactly where that scripture is, but I will find it later. I guess, if you feel you could not have fellowship with anyone that does not think as you do, even though they serve the same God, I am sorry about that. I do not fell the same way about you though. I have no problem with those who do not speak in tongues. I still consider them my brethren.
God Bless,
Naomi

 

I believe it was David Mainse of "100 Huntley Street," who prayed, "Oh, God deliver us from doctrine!" The New Evangelical cry is unity at the expense of doctrine. Billy Graham puts his arm around the Catholic bishop, and says, "This man believes the same that I do." It doesn't matter what the Bible says any more, as long as we unite. Doctrine is sacrificed. Truth is sacrificed. The Bible is sacrificed (That's where doctrine comes from). Unity is the important thing. It will be in the church of the anti-christ too--that one world church of the end times spoken of in Revelation 17, and yet to come.

2Cor.6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
Mat.10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
---The sword here does not speak to the Spanish Inquisition or the Crusades, but rather doctrine.

35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man's foes shall be they of his own household.
---Jesus teaching in these verses--doctrine divides!! It is going to divide your very households. It is not going to unite; it is going to divide.

Talk to the reformers, such as Luther, who tried to reform the Catholic Church from within. Doctrine divides. The very heresies that Luther preached against, and the gospel that he defended, the stand that he took, are all being reversed today for the sake of ecumenical unity. We indeed are in the last days. Our forefathers would die for their doctrine. We sacrifice it. They sacrificed their lives for it. We sacrifice it for unity. It doesn't matter anymore what you believe as long as you speak in tongues. My answer to that? Hogwash!
DHK

 

You have quoted this verse many times in reference to tongues. Will you please quote the context and demonstrate that it is referring to tongues. If it is not, please refrain from using it to justify an unbiblical practice. Pulling Scripture out of its context and making them mean something other than what they were originally intended is not "rightly dividing the truth" but a deliberate attempt to deceive others.
DHK

 

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Originally posted by Naomi:

Do we then sacrifice doctrine at the altar of unity?

Yes! Only if we are serving the same God!
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Naomi i am glad for your sincerity in seeking the truth but i have to agree with DHK....this theology of unification is what joins Billy Graham hand in hand with the Catholic Church...the idea...doctrine doesnt matter as long as we all love each other and love the Lord...i think this is also called pragmatism....the ends justifying the means....its pretty clear in the book of Corinithians that we are to be separated from unbelievers...how can a believer be in fellowship with a non believer?...this holds true for married couples..being unequally yoked...as well as business partnerships...and if speaking in tongues in the present age is deemed unbiblical (which i believe it is) then we should seriously consider what is the source of the current tongues movement?

 

2Cor.6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness

 

Originally posted by MEE:

Naomi, I would like to ask you a question, if I may?

When you spoke in tongues, for the first time, were you seeking the "gift of tongues" or were you praying for the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues?

MEE

Mee, I was asking for the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues.
What I meant by using the gift in tongues in the wrong way is actually meant to mean with the wrong motives! I should have specified that.

 

Doug44 and DHK,
I am going to take the higher road on this one! God Bless,
Naomi

 

Naomi, these "tongue-talkers" around me say that speaking-in-tongues is the "baptism in the Holy Ghost", & that the fullness of the Holy Spirit is manifested by the 'speaking-in-tongues'; yet when I ask for the Scripture, they never get back to me. Can/Will you?

 

Thanks Naomi, I thought that is what you would say. After all, God only gives us what we ask of Him. (Luke 11:13) He is an awesome God!

MEE

 

From the standpoint of unity, my main point that seems to have been over-looked, is, that ALL who have truly accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, have become united with each other as the CHURCH, which is GOD'S and to that end we are united. Not necessarily by doctrine such as Baptist, which I am, nor any other denomination. Every denomination has a different doctrine OR we would all attend one "home" church with one name. As DHK said, the only time we will have one common denomination is with the reign of the antichrist as in Revelations. The debates that go on this MB have been debated since the beginning of God's creation and will continue, with the same results, till God/Jesus returns. However, it is still a good place to learn both rights and wrongs, to some degree. Most of us agree on much of what we think the scriptures mean. Many on here are Scholars and Preachers and know much more than I. There are many things in the scriptures that are cut and dried, whether we like it or not. And a lot goes against the grain of our sinful, human logic. Many times we seem to think we know more than God as to what is right and wrong in our MODERN times. That is where there is a BIG problem for ALL of us on any given topic. I hope I didn't offend anyone as that is not my goal on any given debate.

God Bless...........Alex

PS: For some, they can't seem to see the light, no matter what. Maybe that applies to me also!

[ July 26, 2002, 11:34 PM: Message edited by: Alex ]

 

Well Granny,
I will give you some scriptural references based upon what they mean by the baptism in the Holy Ghost. However; I do not wish to be affiliated with another group of believer's based upon our interpretation of speaking in tongues. We may agree, yet in other major issues, we may disagree. Such as UPC, and the Trinity, or the "Holiness" churches etc.
In Acts chapter 1, Jesus is telling the disciples that they were baptized in water, but pretty soon they would be baptized in the Holy Ghost. So, this would have to be an event after one has been saved. Also Paul asked some disciples in Acts chapter 19, if they have received the Holy Ghost since they believed? They told him they have not heard of the Holy Ghost, but were baptized with the baptism of repentance, once agoin we can see that this was a separate occurence from their initial salvation. Then Paul laid hands on them, they were filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak in other tongues.

However; I have never said that if someone does not speak in other tongues, they are not saved. I do not believe that for a minute!

Naomi

 

Originally posted by Alex:

PS: For some, they can't seem to see the light, no matter what. Maybe that applies to me also!


Alex,
You have ststed that so eloquently! Thank you for reminding us what the main part of our fellowship should be!
God Bless,
Naomi

 

Naomi writes:
"""So, this would have to be an event after one has been saved. Also Paul asked some disciples in Acts chapter 19, if they have received the Holy Ghost since they believed? They told him they have not heard of the Holy Ghost, but were baptized with the baptism of repentance, once agoin we can see that this was a separate occurence from their initial salvation."""

Naomi, in the famous words of that great American John McEnroe "You cannot be serious"

Naomi, read that scripture closely. These good folks hadn't heard that there was a Holy Ghost and you want to say that they were already saved. They may have been counted righteous as looking toward the Messiah but these folks needed the gospel presented to them and to respond to it and when they did as with any believer the Holy Spirit comes and dwells in them. In this case the true "gift of Tongues" was given to some of the people. The Baptism they knew was the pre-Jesus Baptism that John was giving out these were not saved Christians who at some later date received some spirit Baptism.

Naomi, you mentioned you read Isaiah 28 but offered no alternative meaning to what it means in relation to the "sign" that Paul talked about. If you can't offer another reason Paul wrote what he did then I must be right .
Keep studying sister!!!!

In Christ,
Brian

[ July 29, 2002, 11:06 AM: Message edited by: The Briguy ]

 

Naomi,

In reference to Acts 19, please consider and pray about the following:

The followers of John were not saved. This is evidenced by what Paul said in v.4: "Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."

And further, by the actions taken by the disciples of John in v.5: When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

So these men were baptized twice (ana-baptists, anyone?); once by John, and then the second time when they were truly saved.

So I'm somewhat confused by your statement.

Further, please consider as well: The disciples of John did not speak in tongues after being baptized. They spoke in tongues after Paul layed hands on them (v.6). Same as in Samaria, when Phillip baptized a whole bunch of people in the name of Jesus, but it wasn't until Peter and John layed hands on them that those people received the Holy Ghost.

 

Don, good clear point. Thank you!

 

Me. But I didn't have an apostle lay hands on me....

[ July 29, 2002, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

Interesting qualification, that word "now."

Phillip led a whole hoop of people in Samaria to the Lord, and even baptized them; but it wasn't until Peter and John came and laid hands on them that they received the Holy Spirit.

The disciples of John were baptized in the name of Jesus, but it wasn't until after the apostle Paul had laid hands on them that they received the Holy Spirit.

I find a verse that says "whether there be tongues, they shall cease"; but I cannot find one that indicates the laying on of hands will cease or has ceased.

Interesting qualification, that word "now"....

[ July 29, 2002, 03:36 PM: Message edited by: Don ]