Point of Interest

No. Heb 10:26-7

IN CONTEXT (always a good consideration) your application of verses 26 and 27 to establish "one faith & One Baptism is WRONGLY dividing the word of truth.

So you believe that One Faith means the Catholic church? You are brainwashed my friend! THE "ONE FAITH" IS FAITH IN JESUS THE CHRIST AND NTHER. That excludes faith in Mary the mother of Jesus, the Pope, the Roman Catholic Church, the Baptist Church, the Methodist church or any other denomination. THE "ONE BAPTISM" IS THE BAPTISM OF AND BY THE HOLY SPIRIT". That excludes water baptism in any form, fire baptism in any form, and any other form of baptism.

I agree. Catholics aren't Christians and Christians aren't Catholics - Catholics are Catholics and Christians are Christians. And, you can substitute any denominational name for Catholic there. Those who call themselves anything other than Christian prove they are not Christian, just as Athanasius said. If they were Christians they would be content with the Lord's name and not seek another.</font>[/QUOTE]Then why do so many call them selves by names other than Christian? I see by your profile that you and I are in accord on this.

Wrong! Denominations are identified by denominational names. The body of Christ is identified by Christ's name and true doctrine.</font>[/QUOTE]Sorry, but you do not yet understand the difference between the "Body of Christ" and the "Bride of Christ". These are titles that describe two functionally different aspects of the Christian faith.

The Body's function is to continue the work that Jesus began, which is the spreading of His word and "making of disciples, baptising them in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Anyone can be part of the Body of Christ. The church that you can see with your physical eyes is the body of Christ.

The Bride's function is completely spiritual in nature and essence. The Bride of Christ is not visible to the natural eye, and may be recognized in spirit only. The bride of Christ consists of the collective spirits of all who believe and confess that Jesus is the Son of God, the Messiah (the born again).

The Bride of Christ and Body of Christ are the same thing - the church, so they both have the same name. When you said that one can be in the Body and yet not in the Bride, you were correct, because it is possible to be taken out of the Body before it is presented to Christ as the Bride as we find in Mt 13:41 "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend..." Even so, the Bride and Body are the same thing, and has many Scriptural names: Church of God, Church of Christ, Church of the Living God, etc.</font>[/QUOTE]The Bride of Christ co-mingles with the Body of Christ, and will be "snatched up" to meet the Christ in the air and be taken to the Bridegroom's Supper. The Body of Christ will remain on the earth, minus those who are in the Bride of Christ. The Body of Christ will be subjected to the "Tribulation", just as it was 2000 years ago. It is when the restrainer, "the Bride of Christ", the Holy Spirit indwelt people, is removed from the scene that "the False Prophet" and "the Man of Perdition" will be revealed. The False prophet's role is to "hand over" the remaining "Body of Christ" without a struggle to the evil one who will then gain control of the world, for a spell, wreaking havoc on all mankind remaining on the earth. Then, the tribulation will be ended by the 2nd coming of the Christ to the earth in which he brings his Bride with Him and he sets up His throne in Jerusalem and brings with Him Peace, Love, Mercy, and Justice to all mankind. No my friend the Bride and the Body are not the same!

As is the Body (which is the same as the Bride); "For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: " Eph 5:29</font>[/QUOTE]Of course the Lord loves the church, but the Body of Christ is what you see, not what is! Just as the spirit is the life of the flesh, and the flesh is dead without the spirit, the Body of Christ is dead without the Bride of Christ. As when the spirit departs the flesh, the flesh dies, so does the Body of Christ die when the Bride of Christ departs to be with the Lord.

You cannot separate the Body and the Bride - they are the same. The only discernable difference being that the church is not yet presented as the Bride, and before it is, all those who offend will be removed (including those tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine). Whatever doctrine was taught by the apostles is the doctrine of the Body and the Bride (both these being descriptions of the ONE church that Jesus built Mt 16:18), so there is more than one doctrine - don't be rediculous!</font>[/QUOTE]Wait!, Look at what Jesus had to say about that!

Solascriptura2003, You believe that the Body and Bride are one. You probably also believe that man's body and spirit are one. But Jesus told his Apostles that it is the spirit that gives life to the flesh and that the flesh has nothing to offer. Well, my friend, the Visible Church is known as the Body of Christ, or the flesh of the Christ. So, if in the human body it is the spirit that quickens the flesh, what is it that quickens the flesh of the Church? That's right! The Bride (spirit) of Christ and those who have it! It is the Bride that gives the Body life, the Body has nothing to offer. Therefore when the Bride is removed from the Body, as she shall be, the Body dies!

When a local church congregation dies, it is because the spirit (bride) of God has departed that congregation (body)!

 

Well, it can't be that they are all Catholic. Do tell.

Would I recommend Malachi Martin? No, not really as he went off the deep end with regard to the problems in the Jesuit order. But theologically I don't know that anyone has declared him a heretic, though he was prohibited from celebrating Mass publicly later in his life.

 

Yelsew, the Body of Christ is the church, and the Spirit that animates it and gives it life is the Holy Spirit (not the Bride). The Bride is the Body with all filth removed - both the Bride and the Body are the church, but at different points in time. Your doctrine on this subject is blasphemous, because it tears the church in two and replaces the Holy Spirit with one of the severed halves. Your false doctrine also makes the Body of Christ to die, but the Scripture says Christ was raised to die no more - Romans 6:9

 

For Context, one must refer to earlier posts by both Solascriptura and Yelsew.

Then what you are saying the Catholic Church believes of itself, is that, as the "body of Christ" it is the flesh body of Christ that died and was resurrected, and not that it is the Church that the Christ builded upon the Rock of who and what He alone is. After all you refer to Romans chapter 6 for support of your position. Presumably to say that in answer to my statements that the Bride and Body are different, that the Bride of Christ cannot be separated from the Body of Christ because the Christ has died once and will never do so again.

Romans 6 does not support your point of view

Wow, this is kind of like the bread and wine being the real flesh and blood of Jesus isn't it? "We know that Christ has been raised from the dead and will never die again"...so how is it you can eat bread and it become his flesh? You eat dead bread and it becomes live flesh? I mean, that to make bread, you crush wheat, grinding it to a powder. Then you add water and some other "ingredients", then you bake it as if it were in Hell, (heat kills live enzymes, and bread is cooked at over 300 degrees) until it has no resemblence at all to either wheat or human flesh. But now, you put it in your mouth and it Mysteriously becomes live human flesh. Hmmmmmmm! And you call my doctrine blasphemous? You claim the Catholic Church is the flesh and blood of the Christ, and that is blasphemy! Blasphemy is the claiming for yourself that which is God's.

Let's get something straight here. You use scriptural illustrations, mostly out of context, and none of which you arrived at by your own study and research as their use is the results of another's thoughts which you picked up on, in support of your "learned" position and claim that to be righteous and biblical, but when I do that same thing, I am blasphemous! Somehow, this smacks of "the kettle calling the pot black".

 

Yelsew:

Calm down Yelsew. You are arguing with another Protestant.

God Bless

 

Kathryn, I see you did not get the humor in what I was saying, I'm sorry that my presentation seemed like anger to you. I was having difficulty keeping a straight face in writing that.

 

Making jokes about blaspheming God while trying to keep a straight face is not very Christ-like. When I see charges of blaspheming God from Christians, I don't think "Oh, they must just be joking."

It is however a good illustration of two people using Sola Scriptura.

 

I did not say it was a joke, but rather that the issue of one blasphemer calling another a blasphemer is humorous. It is so, because the Word of God seemingly supports both sides of the issue.

 

I am sure God does not find the issue of blasphemy humorous. I don't see Sola laughing away either at your humor. Like I said, it is a good illustration of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura in action.

God Bless

 

I am sure God does not find the issue of blasphemy humorous. I don't see Sola laughing away either at your humor. Like I said, it is a good illustration of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura in action.

God Bless </font>[/QUOTE]As you wish Kathryn, as you wish

 

Agree. The issue is not that Catholics "might not be Christian" - in every case where I have highlighted some flaw in Catholic doctrine - it is the teaching that I view as being in error - I don't think this makes the Catholic church members "non-Christians".

In Christ,

Bob

 

In spite of the Catholic person's strong Catholic beliefs, he is still capable
of being filled with the Holy Spirit (Being a Christian) if he will follow some
simple instructions from the bible:


That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt
believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou
shalt be saved Romans 10:9

Yes this works for Catholics too....I actually know some who are
spirit filled and I'd consider them Christians. They have no other
tricks whereby to receive salvation. At least they don't work if they do !

 

Yelsew:

Why don't you admit you thought Sola was a Catholic, so it was "OK" to rant and rave at his interpretation of Holy Scripture and charge him with blasphemy about the Holy Eucharist, not realizing he was interpreting Scripture individually just like your were? I guess that is too much to ask for. I won't hold my breath.

God Bless

 

(moved down so Yelsew will see it)

 

Why don't you admit you thought Sola was a Catholic, so it was "OK" to rant and rave at his interpretation of Holy Scripture and charge him with blasphemy about the Holy Eucharist, not realizing he was interpreting Scripture individually just like your were? I guess that is too much to ask for. I won't hold my breath.

God Bless </font>[/QUOTE]I read Sola's profile too!
The first thing you must know about me is that I don't care what denomination a person chooses to align with, that is not important. It is what one posts that is important. I respond to the thoughts and ideas posted, and that is what I was doing with SolaScriptura2003. My response to him would have been the same if Sola were Buddhist, or Hindu, or Dividian, etc.

Sola made the first accusation of blasphemy against me. I responded, finding humor in the event. If you cannot find the humor, oh well!

You are welcome to challenge what I post regarding the Eucharist, I have no problem with that. I celebrate the communion worthily and often, and I don't think there is any part of it that cannot be addressed and even discected.

 

Yelsew, I don't know where you got the idea that I was a Catholic, but I'll forgive you.

Now, you said that the Body of Christ will die, and I said that He has been raised to die no more. (Rom 6:9) This upset you because you complain that I am making the church to transubstantiate like the Catholics do the Eucharist. Not so, but even so, the church is the flesh of Christ in some sense.

(Eph 5:29-30) "For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as the Lord does the church. {30} For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones."

See! The church is the Body in a greater sense than you thought! It, therefore, cannot die and for you to say that it can (and especially to say that "it will") is blasphemy (even if it is unwitting blasphemy).

Surely, now, you must admit that the Spirit that gives the Body of Christ life is the Holy Spirit. To construe the Bride of Christ (which is another description, like Body of Christ, for the church) as being that Spirit is absolutely rediculous. This is NOWHERE stated in the Scripture, but is obviously an unScriptural doctrine that (to quote you) "is the results of another's thoughts which you picked up on."

BTW, Catholic doctrine doesn't say that the transubstantiation takes place when they put the species to their lips or when they eat it (in fact they're not supposed to chew), but rather they say it takes place upon consecration. Just thought you might want to know that for future reference.

 

I don't believe I made that mistake or that connection because I read your profile and even commented in my post that you and I are in accord regarding our identification. My two posts that are in question by Kathryn are:
posted June 09, 2003 03:41 PM
posted June 09, 2003 05:44 PM

See for yourself if I said you are a Catholic.

Well I believe there is a Body of Christ comprised of all the churches around the world with allegiance to Jesus the Son of God, The Christ. The body of Christ is the "physically present" extention of the Christ, commissioned to continue the work that Jesus began. Thus it is the "flesh", "muscle", "bone" and "sinues" of the Christ going hither and yon making disciples.

I believe there is a Bride of Christ which is the "spirit" of the Body of Christ, and like human spirit it is the invisible part of the whole consisting of the spirits of all believers in Jesus, the Christ. Jesus, tells us that the spirit is the life of the flesh and that the flesh offers no value. Scriptures tell us that when the spirit departs from the body, the flesh dies. On the Cross when Jesus commended his spirit into the hand of the Father, His flesh died. So when Jesus returns to claim his bride, "snatching her up" into the air to join him in the Bridegrooms supper, is it unreasonable to believe that the "body of Christ that is left behind will die?

Then who does the Bride Groom marry if we are part of his Body?

Already responded to above.

The Holy Spirit is what persuades human spirits to believe in the Bride Groom. The collective human spirits are what quicken the Body of Christ. Thus the human spirits, collectively, must be the Bride of Christ, while this physical church (by whatever name it is found) is the Body of Christ. After All, Jesus is referred to as the Bridegroom, so there must be a Bride, and if we are part of the Body of Christ, we cannot be part of the Bride of Christ, Bodies do not marry themselves! A scripture that confirms that the disciples of Christ are not part of his Body,

The children of the bridechamber are the disciples of Christ, therefore we disciples of Christ cannot be part of Christ's body, lest when the bridegroom depart, we depart too. Jesus' words, not mine.

We know who the Lamb is, but who is the "wife"? If the physical church is the Body of Christ, can it be Bride or "wife" of Christ at the same time? If as you say we believers are part of the Body of Christ, from whence comes the Bride of Christ? Can we, as part of the bridegroom also be the bride? We know that the Holy Spirit is not the Bride because the Holy Spirit, the Bride Groom and the Father are all, one God.

Thanks, that helps to clear things up. Consecration blinds them from seeing the reality?

Now what was it you want me to fess up to?