LEAVING THE CATHOLIC CHURCH

Sometimes they are:

Ephesians 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

Romans 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
DHK

 

Sometimes they are:
</font>[/QUOTE]Nope. From www.thesaurus.com,

Entry: by
Function: preposition
Definition: next to
Synonyms: along, alongside, beside, close to, ferninst, fornent, near, nearby, nigh, over, past, round, via
Concept: proximity

 

Harley the study of Greek prepositions is enough to make your head spin. A preposition like eis is translated at least a dozen different ways in the KJV. That is why I said "sometimes." If you want to find out look up the Greek words and find out the various meanings that each Greek word is able to have, and then compare.
I simply gave examples in verses how we are saved both by faith and by grace. The Scripture says both. I figured that was an easier way to answer the question rather than to do a detailed study on Greek prepositions which I welcome you to do.
DHK

 

But they don't exactly say that, unless I missed some (which is entirely possible ). They say

1) justified by faith
2) saved by grace [/]through[/i] faith
3) live by faith

Are you are saying that justification equals salvation?

 

But they don't exactly say that, unless I missed some (which is entirely possible ). They say

1) justified by faith
2) saved by grace [/]through[/i] faith
3) live by faith

Are you are saying that justification equals salvation? </font>[/QUOTE]Galatians 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

 

Thanks!

 

BrotherAdam,

Yes they are. The catholics add works to what is required to be justified before God. We believe what God proclaims in the scriptures rather than what the Catholic Church says about it.

God specifically excludes works.

And He even goes so far(in Galaciens) as to curse any "gospel" that includes works.

Funny, in Galaciens God curses any gospel that includes works, yet in the Council of Trent cursings the Catholic Church curses anyone who does not include works to the gospel.

Wonder why that is?

 

Yes they are. The catholics add works to what is required to be justified before God. We believe what God proclaims in the scriptures rather than what the Catholic Church says about it.

God specifically excludes works.

And He even goes so far(in Galaciens) as to curse any "gospel" that includes works.

Funny, in Galaciens God curses any gospel that includes works, yet in the Council of Trent cursings the Catholic Church curses anyone who does not include works to the gospel.

Wonder why that is? </font>[/QUOTE]The error you fall into here is that of a poor understanding of the linguistics used in the Catholic Church. Works of the law and good fruits are two seperate things.

 

Faith Alone - is found in James 2.


And "apart from Works" is found in Romans 3.

They are both there.

In Christ,

Bob

 

The problem with "going to a Catholic board" is that you can seldem get them to talk about the Bible. They seem bent one "quoting themselves" instead.

And where that leads... is quite predictable.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Actually, that quote was mine.

I think if brother Adam had posted that, it would be to disagree with me.

God bless,

Mike

 

The "linguistics" of the Bible, and the "linguistics" of the RCC are poles apart. They say and teach opposing doctrines. Both cannot be correct. I opt for the Bible, the Word of God.
DHK

 

This kind of reminds of when I posted this abomination of prayer once...
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(Pope Pius XII, 1950)

"Enraptured by the splendour of your heavenly beauty and impelled by the anxieties of the world we cast ourselves into your arms, O immaculate mother of Jesus, and our mother Mary, confident of finding in you our most loving heart, and your most loving heart, the appeasement of our ardent desire and a safe harbour from the tempest which besets us on every side. Though degraded by our faults and overwhelmed by infinite misery we adore and praise the purest richness of the sublime gifts with which God has filled you above every other mere creature. From the moment of your conception until the day in which, after your assumption into heaven, he crowned you Queen of the Universe. Crystal fountain of faith, bathe our minds with eternal truths, fragrant lily of all holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume. O conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell. O well beloved of God, hear the ardent cries which rise up from every heart in this year dedicated to you. Bend tenderly, O Mary, over our aching wounds. Convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and the oppressed, comfort the poor and the humble, quench hatred, sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity and protect the holy church. In your name, resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognise that they are all brothers. Receive, O most sweet mother, our humble supplication above all obtained for us, that on that day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which is sung today around your altars. You are all beautiful, O Mary, you are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honour of our people.
--------------------------------------------------

And the dear one who responded said something like, "Oh, why thats just flowery language! Like when you give your wife a valentine card!"

And she actually expected us to buy that!!!

Mike

 

Mike,

I agree with you in your analysis of this prayer apparently offered by Pope Pius XII.

(Pope Pius XII, 1950)

"Enraptured by the splendour of your heavenly beauty and impelled by
the anxieties of the world we cast ourselves into your arms, O
immaculate mother of Jesus, and our mother Mary, confident of finding in
you our most loving heart, and your most loving heart, the appeasement of
our ardent desire and a safe harbour from the tempest which besets us
on every side. Though degraded by our faults and overwhelmed by infinite
misery we adore and praise the purest richness of the sublime gifts
with which God has filled you above every other mere creature. From
the moment of your conception until the day in which, after your assumption
into heaven, he crowned you Queen of the Universe. Crystal fountain of
faith, bathe our minds with eternal truths, fragrant lily of all holiness,
captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume. O conqueress of
evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin which makes the soul
detestable to God and a slave of hell. O well beloved of God, hear the ardent
cries which rise up from every heart in this year dedicated to you. Bend
tenderly, O Mary, over our aching wounds. Convert the wicked, dry the
tears of the afflicted and the oppressed, comfort the poor and the humble,
quench hatred, sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity
and protect the holy church. In your name, resounding harmoniously in
heaven, may they recognise that they are all brothers. Receive, O most
sweet mother, our humble supplication above all obtained for us, that on
that day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn
which is sung today around your altars. You are all beautiful, O Mary, you
are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honour of our people.'

I am sure that the mother of our Lord is clothed in the perfection of a spiritual body in Heaven just like any other of our relatives and friends who loved and followed Jesus.

But this prayer is a affront to Almighty God who is a jealous God and desires that Christians only worship and venerate Him. The N.T. speaks of us loving, worshipping and venerating the Lord Jesus, but no where opens the doors of spiritual enlightenment to offer this kind of praise to Mary. Here is another example of how off course the Magisterium and the late Pope Pius the XII th placed themselves theologically by their add on, human generated views of God's church and witness in the world.

Exodus 20:3 says, 'Thou shalt have no other gods before Me', and the second Commandment is 'Thou shall not make uto thee any graven images.'

Another Commandment that all Catholics and other people should pay attention to is that God said, 'Honor your father and your mother,' but He does not say with the exception of venerating My mother the Queen of Heaven.' If God wanted to convey this truth, surely He would have set the Israelites on the correct path of Divine worship back in 1491 B.C.,
and we would have been given Biblical directives as to how to adore His mother in the New Testament.

It's interesting that 100% of non-Catholic denominations never exegeted this message or concept from our books from Matthew to the Book of Revelation.

Can we again guess that the veneration of Mary might come from the traditions of men. [Colossians 2:8] And I never read in the Bible as to our faith that we should say, 'One Lord, one Mary, one faith and one baptism.' [Ephesians 4:5]

I guess we all should reread Ephesians 4:5; it probably will bless our hearts.

 

Actually, that quote was mine.

I think if brother Adam had posted that, it would be to disagree with me.

</font>[/QUOTE]I stand corrected.

Bob

 

---------------

Mike Said --

And the dear one who responded said something like, "Oh, why thats just flowery language! Like when you give your wife a valentine card!"

And she actually expected us to buy that!!!


Odd that they expect us to "put the blinders on" to the obvious problems with Pope Pius' statement.

In Christ,

Bob