You may know you are saved, because God says so in His Word.

Forever and forever?

Various quotes by scholars:

Aeonios rendered by our translators "everlasting" and "for ever and ever" upon which eternal torment is based, is "without hesitation, misleading and incorrect; for "aion" means "an age", a limited period of time, whether long or short, though often of indefinite length; and the adjective "aeonios" means "of the age," "age-long" "aeonian," and never everlasting, it is true that it may be applied as an epithet to things that are endless, but the idea of endlessness in all such cases comes not from the epithet, but only because it is inherent in the object to which the epithet is applied, as in the case of God..." Thomas Allin (Christ Triumphant)
"The word aion is never used in Scripture, or anywhere else, in the sense of endlessness (vulgarly called eternity), it always meant, both in Scripture and out, a period of time; else how could it have a plural--how could you talk of the aeons and aeons of aeons as the Scripture does?" C. Kingley

Rev. J.S. Blunt in his Dictionary of Theology

"The conception of eternity, in the Semitic languages, is that of a long duration and series of ages."

Bishop Rust declares, "Tis notoriously known, that the Jews, whether writing in Hebrew or Greek, do by 'olam' (the Hebrew word corresponding to "aion'), and aion mean any remarkable period or duration, whether it be of life, or dispensation, or polity."

Canon Farrar and G. Campbell Morgan and Dr. Lammenois and Dr. N. Turner are not alone in their scholarship. You may not agree with them, but they stand as strong witnesses!

Let's consider the Aaronic priesthood which is described as being "everlasting" in Numbers 25:13 and a few other "for ever and ever (s) in the Old Covenant next.

"The Bible is not an end in itself, but a means to bring men to an intimate and satisfying knowledge of God, that they may enter into Him, that they may delight in His Presence, may taste and know the inner sweetness of the very God Himself in the core and center of their hearts." A.W. Tozer (The Pursuit Of God)

 

If you don't think hell is eternal, what do you think about this:

22:3 And there will no longer be any curse,9 and the throne of God and the Lamb will be in the city.10 His11 servants12 will worship13 him, 22:4 and they will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads. 22:5 Night will be no more, and they will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, because the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever. - Revelation 22:3-5 NET emphasis added

Does this then mean that God will only reign for a limited age and not eternally?

 

Dualhunter,

No, I don't mean that. God is most certainly Eternal.

And John, I'll get back to you on this. Sorry that I wasn't very clear about what I was trying to say.

Peace, Diane

 

1 Corinthians 15:1-2

Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

1 Corinthians 9:26-27

Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Did Paul not understand the concept or do you not understand the concept?

 

Dualhunter and John,

Below is a study on the words forever and eternal based on information found in G. Campbell Morgan's book, "God's Methods With Man" (pages 185-186) and Christ Triumphant by Thomas Allin. I did not write it. It has been modified and paraphrased in the course of various discussions and studies I’ve had with other believers. It is information free and open to the general public and is widely believed many people. My only reason for posting this information is to lift up the all-sufficient work of Jesus Christ at Calvary and for God’s glory and honor – blessed by His Holy Name. His grace superabounds!

The true meaning of the words "aion" and "aionios” which are the originals of the terms rendered by our translators "everlasting," for ever and ever:" and on this translation, which is so misleading, so much of the popular dogma of endless torment is taught. This is misleading and incorrect; for "aion" means "an age," a limited period, whether long or short, though often of indefinite length; and the adjective "aionios" means "of the age," "age-long," "aeonian," and NEVER "everlasting", but it can be truly applied to things that are endless.

In the Greek version of the Old Testament (the Septuagint)—which was in common use among the Jews in our Lord's time, from which He and the Apostles usually quoted, and whose authority, therefore, should be decisive on this point--these terms are repeatedly applied to things that have long ceased to exist. For example: the Aaronic priesthood is said to be "everlasting," (Numb.25:13). And we know that this priesthood does not exist any more. Another is: The land of Canaan is given as an "everlasting" possession, and "for ever", (Gen. 17:8...Gen. 18:15). In Deut. 23:3, "for ever" = "even to the tenth generation." In Lamentations 5:19, "for ever and ever" = from "generation to generation." In Jude 7, Sodom and Gomorrah are said to be suffering the vengeance of eternal (aeonian) fire, i.e., their temporal overthrow by fire, for they have a definite promise of final restoration.--(Ezek. 16:55) And Christ's kingdom is to last "for ever," yet we are distinctly told that this very kingdom is to end.--(I Cor. 15:24)

Aion Either Means Endless Duration Or It Does Not

Also if aionios is translated as "eternal," in the sense of endless, then aion must mean eternity, i.e., endless duration. This would surely change many Scripture verses by speaking of the “eternities” (there is more than one eternity?). We know what "eternity" is, but what are the "eternities?" You cannot have more than one eternity. The doxology would be: "Thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory, 'unto the eternities.'" In the case of the sin against the Holy Spirit, the translation would then be, "it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this eternity nor in that to come." Our Lord's words, (Matt. 13:39), would then be, "the harvest is the end of the eternity," i.e., the end of the endless, which is to make our Lord talk nonsense. Again, in Mark 4:19, the translation should be, "the cares," not of "this world," but "the cares of this eternity choke the word." In Luke 16:8, "The children of this world," should be "the children of this eternity." In 1 Cor. 10:11, the words, "upon whom the ends of the world are come," should be: "the ends of the eternities." Take next, Gal. 1:4: "That He might deliver us from this present evil world," should run thus: "from this present evil eternity." In 2 Tim. 4:10, the translation should be: "Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present eternity." And "Now once at the end of the ages hath He been manifested," should read "at the end of the eternities."

1. How, if it means an endless period, can aion have a plural?

2. How come such phrases to be used as those repeatedly occurring in Scripture, where aion is added to aion, if aion is of itself infinite?

3. How is it that we repeatedly read of the end of the aion?--Matt. 13:39-40-49;...Matt. 24:3...Matt. 28:20...1 Cor. 10:11...Hebr. 9:26.

4. If aion be infinite, why is it applied over and over to what is strictly finite? e.g. Mark 4:19...Acts 3:21...Rom. 12:2...1 Cor. 1:20...1 Cor. 2:6...1 Cor. 3:18, 10:11, etc. etc.

Aionios in the Greek is a mystery; there is only one person to whom it may properly be applied, and that one person is God. ETERNAL LIFE IS NOTHING OTHER THAN THE LIFE OF GOD. The gift of Jesus Christ here is a foretaste of the life divine."

[ September 09, 2002, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: GH ]

 

Also, I wanted to add concerning Paul - Carson's interpretation that Paul beat his body into submission because of the possibility of losing his salvation is unscriptural.

Why then would Paul say:

For me to live is Christ, and to DIE is gain. But if I am to live on in the flesh, this will mean fruitful labor for me; and I do not know which to choose. But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and BE with Christ, for that is very much better; yet to remain on in the flesh is more necessary for your sake. Phil. 1:21-24

Paul was confident that the Lord would keep him until that day he left this world and beyond. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. No ands, ifs or buts about it.

 

Oh and Dualhunter I don't believe that hell is what we think it is. But that's for another time.

 

It sure does seem that way, looking at the other uses of the word in the NT.

Good point!

AITB

 

Hi there...

Castaway= Adokimos= Not standing the test, not approved.

Properly used of metals and coins.

That which does not prove itself such as it ought.

Unfit for, unproved, spurious, reprobate.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=96&version=

the same word...adokimos is used in the following as well....

2Cor. 13:7

"Now I pray to God that ye do no evil; not that we should appear approved, but that ye should do that which is honest, though we be as adokimos." The Apostle Paul is speaking of the Touchstone and approval of our Father. "Not that we appear approved..." The Apostle Paul is indeed speaking of disqualification for the race. "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection (I bruise by body and make it my slave) Lest "that I, after I have summoned others to the race (called others to the contest), "I myself should be disqualified (fail shamefully of the prize." ) The entire thrust of this passage is one of overcoming; of pushing to the finish line of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. The thrust is one of winning the prize of God's upward call in Christ Jesus; of stretching for the finish line, of winning the contest! Anything else is just simply wrong!

If one looks at every occurrence it is apparent that it should have the English word "disqualified."

"God gives them over to a disqualified mind" (Rom.1:28)

"disqualified as to the faith" (1Tim.3:8)

"disqualified for every good act" (1Tim.1:16)

"Paul may be becoming disqualified" (1Cor.9:27)

"except some are disqualified" (2Cor.13:5)

"I am expecting that you will know that we are not disqualified" (2Cor.13:6)

"yet, bringing forth thorns and thistles, it is disqualified and near a curse, whose consummation is burning" (Heb.6:8).

In the last verse, when land is not tended to properly it grows thorns and thistles. To make the land good for growing crops again farmers burn the weeds off. The weeds are not eternally burning. God takes care of His farm. He removes the weeds and burns them up but not eternally. Does this make sense? If the fires burned on and on and on how could the farmer plant his crops?

Paul had a lot to say about buffeting the body, and pressing toward the mark, etc., but if all that referred to whether one could suffer eternal damnation, then he said a lot of things that just don't make sense in that light. "For by GRACE through faith you have been saved, it is a GIFT, NOT OF WORKS, lest you be found boasting." There is a pressing in which has nothing to do with eternal security. Eternal security is found only in Christ's work on the cross. So anyone who uses these kind of scriptures to teach hell, especially for believers, is trampling under foot the blood of Christ and trusting in their own righteousness. Was Paul wrong when he said there was nothing that could separate us from Him?
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So it means that the object is no longer useful for the thing it was originally intended for and is only fit for secondary use, for example a coffee mug that has a crack in it can still be used, not for drinking coffee, but you could still set it on your desk and use it for a pencil/pen holder. The object is not discarded, but used for a less glorious purpose than originally intended.

And haven’t we all been there?

 

Carson,

Let me ask you a question. If you were to have a massive heart attack and die right after you finished reading this post, would you go to heaven?

Why so or why not?

 

Hi Psalm,

Yes, I would go to heaven.

Because I am living in the grace of Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Father saves me.
The Son enlightens me.
The Spirit strengthens me.
This is why I have no fear.

God bless,

Carson

 

That would depend on his relationship with God at that time. If he rejected God's ways and died in such a state, then the answer would be no.

 

Dear Carson,

you wrote:

Because I am living in the grace of Jesus Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit.

The Father saves me.
The Son enlightens me.
The Spirit strengthens me.
This is why I have no fear.

I reply:

Amen and Hallelujah! Stay there - always in the Father's love.

You are loved,

Diane

=================================================

Repent=Matanoeo= To change one's mind for the better/ to heartily amend.

Matanoeo, rooted in Noeo.

Noeo= To perceive with the mind/ to understand/ to have understanding/ to think upon, to heed, ponder/consider.

Repent= http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Hebrew/heb.cgi?number=05162&version=

The Hardness Of The Way

None can know how difficult it is to enter into the kingdom of heaven, but those who have tried—tried hard, and have not ceased to try. I care not to be told that one may pass at once into all possible sweetness of assurance; it is not assurance I desire, but the thing itself; not the certainty of eternal life, but eternal life. I care not what other preachers may say, while I know that in St. Paul the spirit and the flesh were in frequent strife. They only, I repeat, know how hard it is to enter into life, who are in conflict every day, are growing to have this conflict every hour—nay, begin to see that no moment is life, without the presence that maketh strong. Let any tell me of peace and content, yea, joy unspeakable as the instant result of the new birth; I deny no such statement, refuse no such testimony; all I care to say is, that, if by salvation they mean less than absolute oneness with God, I count it no salvation, neither would be content with it if it included every joy in the heaven of their best imagining. If they are not righteous even as he is righteous, they are not saved, whatever be their gladness or their content; they are but on the way to be saved. If they do not love their neighbour—not as themselves: that is a phrase ill to understand, and not of Christ, but—as Christ loves him, I cannot count them entered into life, though life may have begun to enter into them. Those whose idea of life is simply an eternal one, best know how hard it is to enter into life. The Lord said, ‘Children how hard is it to enter into the kingdom!’ the disciples little knew what was required of them!

Demands unknown before are continually being made upon the Christian: it is the ever fresh rousing and calling, asking and sending of the Spirit that worketh in the children of obedience. When he thinks he has attained, then is he in danger; when he finds the mountain he has so long been climbing show suddenly a distant peak, radiant in eternal whiteness, and all but lost in heavenly places, a peak whose glory-crowned apex it seems as if no human foot could ever reach—then is there hope for him; proof there is then that he has been climbing, for he beholds the yet unclimbed; he sees what he could not see before; if he knows little of what he is, he knows something of what he is not. He learns ever afresh that he is not in the world as Jesus was in the world; but the very wind that breathes courage as he climbs is the hope that one day he shall be like him, seeing him as he is. George MacDonald

[ September 11, 2002, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: GH ]

 

What happened to pugatory? Do you get a free pass?

 

Good answer Tuor

 

What happened to pugatory? Do you get a free pass?</font>[/QUOTE]Maybe he has enough money to buy his way out.