Need for Authority

Dan:
Unfortunately, pianos do not carry out the command to sing. Singing is defined by the text as Speaking to yourselves, a reciprocal pronoun. Instruments are not people (pronouns) and do not speak. Singing is defined as using words to communicate a spiritual message. Pianos, banjos do not use words neither can they communciate a spiritual message. The verbal message must be understood by the one declaring it, and the recipient of the communication. Eph. 5:19, Col. 3:16, I Cor. 14:15. Three piece bands do not declare a verbal message that can be understood by the recipient. Therefore, it is excluded from the command, as it cannot aid the act as per the scriptures.

The scriptures identify the source of the message. It is the melody of the heart or mind. Machines do not possess a heart or mind. Therefore they are excluded from the command and cannot aid one in doing so. If you know one that does, you should be on the discovery channel. Eph. 3:16, Eph. 5:19.

Singing is to declare the name of Christ among brethren. Machines are not subject to the gospel. Therefore, they are not brethren. Machines do not declare a name. They make a noise or sound. Therefore, they cannot comply with the command of Hebrews 2:12. This excludes them from being an expedient.

In actuality,THE USE OF INSTRUMENTS CHANGES OR REQUIRES A DIFFERENT ACT other than the one specifically described in the scriptures, which as per the scriptures makes it an unlawful practice. I Cor. 4:6, Romans 10:17;14:23.

Dan, if words did not have a meaning, you would have a case. However, such is not the case. The eight passages in the new testament are specific as to the act singing. It can only be misundertood when words do not have meaning, or somone attempts to change the meaning of the inspired text. I forgot one other possibility. One may also ignore the text.

Have a good day.

 

Tuor:
Let me say this as simple and as clear as the word clear could ever be clear. The use of mechanical instruments CHANGES THE SPECIFIED ACT OF PRAISE. Col. 3:16, Eph.5:19, Hebrews 2;12, Acts 16:24,25, I Cor. 14:15, Romans 15:9, James 5:13, Mat. 26:30.
If this is not true, please provide the inspired evidence from the new testament of Christ that supports your contention. Is that asking too much of someone who believes it is authorized and acceptable? I have done so for singing. I thought you used the new testament of Christ as your standard. It has become abundantly clear that is not the case. If I am wrong, you will correct me by posting the inspired evidence from the new testament of Christ.
You are right about one thing. You will not change my mind about false teaching. It is surreal that yo would expect anyone to believe you. WHY? Just because you have said so. Your position is BOOK 000, CHAPTER 000, VERSE 000. Therefore, it is false.

 

Tuor:
Singing is defined by the context and words of the inspired text. It could not be any simpler than that. I have answered this in the exegesis of the text of the eight passages pertaining to singing. There is no way under the sun you could argue for mechanical instruments from the text of scripture, so why try to use silence and human reasoning to do so. Who are you trying to convince with this approach? If you understand the english words in the totality of the text posted, you must realize it is foolish and unfruitful to argue this way.

The Bibe does NOT say many things that I do not do. One, the Bible does not say I cannot eat steak and drink kool-aid for the Lord's Supper. Yet, I know they are wrong. How? The scriptures SPECIFY THE ACT OR PRACTICE. The same way one knows how to sing. IT IS SPECIFIED.

Two, The Bible does not utter one word about smoking marijuana to prepare my mind for prayer. yet,It is wrong. WHY? The Bible condemns the act of altering one's mind. Eph.5:18.

Three, the Bible does not say one cannot preach naked. However, I know this is sin because it is not modest apparel. This type reasoning is, well, ridiculous.

But, so is your argument.

 

Tuor:
You have not presented any evidence for your assertion. It is inconsistent for you to say the Lord's Supper and the elements of it are specified, and singing with the fruit of the lips from the mind is not.

Your personal accusation about convincing me as one in the snare of Satan is not very effective. Why? It has no scriptural basis.

Of course, this is typical of your method of debating. One, Do not answer arguments with pertinent scripture. Two, Do not use the authority of the new testament scriptures to support your position. Three, remember words are just words. They mean only what I want. Four, Attempt to use the court of public opinion to support your argument, or poison the waters against the one who has exposed you, especially when your position is unscriptural. Five, in order to distract from the issue, use inflammatory remarks or just ignore scriptural questions about the issue.

Tuor, the only one in the snare of Satan on this issue is, as Nathan told David, "Thou art the man."

The case for mechanical instruments may be summarized as BOOK 000, CHAPTER 000, VERSE 000. The eight verses in the new tesatament of Christ SPECIFY SINGING. The SCRIPTURES DEFINE THIS DECLARATIVELY, BY EXAMPLE, AND IMPLICATION, AS PEOPLE USING WORDS TO COMMUNICATE A SPIRITUAL MESSAGE THAT EMANATES FROM THE MIND THROUGH THE FRUIT OF THE LIPS. The same can be said of the Lord's Supper. THE ACT IS SPECIFIED.

Your last post reveals you are not only unscriptural in your contention, but also inconsistent in application of word meanings and grammatical constructs of language. I Cor. 11:24-29, Eph.5:19. Col. 3:16.

In short, you can understand that God specifically requires bread, and fruit of the vine, but you cannot understand speaking to yourselves in words which communicate a spiritual message. You would not allow steak and kool-aid but, you will allow a piano. In other words, it is apparent that Ephesians 5:19 and all other passages related to this subject should read sing-play,or play, have a concert, an operatic production, NOT SING. However, you have not provided one scriptural reason for this change, not one.

If I were in a public debate with you on this issue, in the case of your arguments being displayed on a chart, I could simply PLACE A BLANK TRANSPARENCY ON THE OVERHEAD. This is exactly the content of your scriptural arguments and rebuttals. I am excluding your attempt to be under the Law of Moses.

The only people you will convince with this type presentation are those who do not respect the authority of the scriptures anyway. These same people will fall for anything as they do not stand for the static standard of truth. II Tim. 4:1-4; 4:1-5.

 

Tuor:
One, Mechanical instruments do not prevent me from singing, eating sleeping, using the restroom or a number of other things. However, the use of them does violate the expressed action of singing. It is absurd to say the words of any text have no real meaning. This is the IMPLICATION OF YOUR POSTS ABOUT THE TOTALITY OF SCRIPTURE THAT TEACHES ONE TO SING. This is not rational argumentation on your part.

The Bible says the lips are used to proclaim praise to God. It is in the book of Hebrews. I realize you did not say it because it is a scriptural reference and you do not use them for your position. The denial of the phrase is implied by what constitutes the specific command to sing. However, since words do not mean anything to you, why worry about what one says anyway? THE IMPLICATION OF YOUR POSITION FORCES YOU TO DENY THE LIPS, THE HEART, WORDS, UNDERSTANDING, RECIPROCAL COMMUNICATION OF PEOPLE IN PRAISE TO GOD. It is not a matter of preventing one from doing the word (James 1:22). However, it is wrong to act in an unauthorized manner. Playing - singing, violates the command to SING.
Since the words of a text do not really mean anything specific, would it be authorized to yell during a song, if not,why not? What about banging on the back of the pew? If not, why not? Or, would it be authorized to groan and whistle Dixie during a song? If not, why not?

 

Tuor:
One, Mechanical instruments do not prevent me from singing, eating sleeping, using the restroom or a number of other things. However, the use of them does violate the expressed action of singing. It is absurd to say the words of any text have no real meaning. This is the IMPLICATION OF YOUR POSTS ABOUT THE TOTALITY OF SCRIPTURE THAT TEACHES ONE TO SING. This is not rational argumentation on your part.

The Bible says the lips are used to proclaim praise to God. It is in the book of Hebrews. I realize you did not say it because it is a scriptural reference and you do not use them for your position. The denial of the phrase is implied by what constitutes the specific command to sing. However, since words do not mean anything to you, why worry about what one says anyway? THE IMPLICATION OF YOUR POSITION FORCES YOU TO DENY THE LIPS, THE HEART, WORDS, UNDERSTANDING, RECIPROCAL COMMUNICATION OF PEOPLE IN PRAISE TO GOD. It is not a matter of preventing one from doing the word (James 1:22). However, it is wrong to act in an unauthorized manner. Playing - singing, violates the command to SING.
Since the words of a text do not really mean anything specific, would it be authorized to yell during a song, if not,why not? What about banging on the back of the pew? If not, why not? Or, would it be authorized to groan and whistle Dixie during a song? If not, why not?

 

Aren't you the one that keeps on harping about the totality of Scripture. Practice what you preach.

Psalms 33
2 Praise the LORD with harp: sing unto him with the psaltery and an instrument of ten strings.
3 Sing unto him a new song; play skilfully with a loud noise.

That sounds like a command to me. The Psalms are just as applcable today as they were a three thousand years ago. Or, do you also leave out Psalm 23 out of your Bible. Preach the entire Word of God, the totality of Scripture harmonizes together.
DHK

 

Dhk:
Yes, I practive what I preach. I also rightly divide the word of truth. Unlike you, who wants to go back to the law of Moses. I am sorry but Christ has ALL authority as expressed in the new testament. A new testament that commands one to sing, not play or play- sing. The totality of the eight passages that comprise the teaching about music is clear. One uses his mind to comunicate words of understanding to others through spiritual songs, hymns and psalms through the fruit of his lips. Note: Col. 3:16, Eph. 5:19, Romans 15:9, Acts 16:24,25, James 5:13, Hebrews 2:12,Mat 26:30, I Cor. 14:15. The hebrew writer states in Hebrews 13:15,  By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
That is not nearly it, that is it!

I preach and practice these divine directives from the words of Christ, no more and no less. I will leave the appeal to the law of Moses to those who do not wish to be justified by the blood of Christ.

Galatians 5:1  ¶Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2  Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3  For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4  Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5  For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6  For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

 

Hey Frank, what about cd and tape accompaniment? They aren't "instruments" and you say PA systems were OK. Can I sing along with a tape? (Now what's the emoticon for sarcasm again...)

 

Dan:
The answer is simple. Does it require a change in the ACT to sing with words of understanding to others? Yes, it does. Therefore, it is not authorized. However, a microphone does not change the act of the command it aids the communication of the words of the spiritual message. No sarcasm here. Just the truth. Have a good one.

By the way, I have not found any scriptures that teach Christians to play. If you know where Jesus athourized them, please enlighten me. NOW, I am being sarcastic.

 

Tuor:
I already knew the answer was NO.
However, I would like to see the words of Christ saying proper praise,or worship is as you say, IRRELEVANT. However, considering up to this point you have offered No scripture to support your previous claim, I am not really convinced you will do so this time.
In fact, the scriptures have already sustained the relevancy of this issue through direct specific command. So, your claim cannot be substantiated.

Jesus said commands are as relevant as loving him. John 14;15. Commands are as relevant as getting into heaven. Rev. 22:14. I would like to know which command you can not obey and get into heaven? If there is one, which one? And, how do you know?

This statement is unreal.