1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

What kind of virgin will you be?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by James_Newman, Apr 12, 2006.

Top Posters
Page 1 of 7
  1. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    Matthew 25:1-13
    1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
    2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
    3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
    4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
    5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.
    6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
    7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
    8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
    9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
    10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
    11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
    12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
    13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

    All these virgins are saved believers. They all have lamps, and are gone forth to meet the bridegroom. The only difference is 5 of them are wise and 5 of them are foolish. The wise virgins have made themselves ready, while the foolish virgins have let their lamps go out. Will your lamp be filled and ready when the bridegroom comes?
     
    #1 James_Newman, Apr 12, 2006
  2. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen, brother James! So many people teach that these are 5 saved and 5 lost, but the Bible never calles unsaved people "virgins"; they're going to hell!
     
    #2 Hope of Glory, Apr 12, 2006
  3. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    Maybe the 5 lamps out are those who don't believe in a pre-trib rapture. Oops, there I go again! :D ;)
     
    #3 LadyEagle, Apr 12, 2006
  4. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    13,977
    Likes Received:
    2
    5 are armenian, and 5 are calvinist. It is up to you which is which.
     
    #4 saturneptune, Apr 12, 2006
  5. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    They could both be either.
     
    #5 James_Newman, Apr 12, 2006
  6. rbell

    rbell Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    Doggone it...

    I thought we had to choose between "King James Virgin" and "New International Virgin."
     
    #6 rbell, Apr 12, 2006
  7. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2005
    Messages:
    9,031
    Likes Received:
    2
    Uh, are the KJV and the NIV, "Virgin Editions?"
     
    #7 Tom Butler, Apr 13, 2006
  8. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, if 5 are armenian and 5 are calvinist, wasn't it up to God's sovereign choice to determine which were which?
     
    #8 Calvibaptist, Apr 13, 2006
  9. Calvibaptist

    Calvibaptist New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2006
    Messages:
    892
    Likes Received:
    0
    Now, if I'm a dispensationalist, I say this passage regards Israel and the offer of the kingdom. Some are willing to accept it (their lamps have oil) and some are not (no oil). Those who are ready for the coming of the king get saved and those who are not don't. This parable has nothing to do with the church, if I am a dispensationalist.

    Now, if I am not a dispensationalist, I say this passage is in regard to people in general. One day, the king is coming. Are you going to be ready (wise) or not (foolish). Similar to wise man and foolish man building houses on foundations. If you have oil in your lamp, you are saved. If you do not, you are left out.

    I am assuming you are saying this passage refers only to believers. You want to make every little detail of the passage fit something. So, obviously, if they are both virgins, they must both be Christians. I disagree with this. You are probably going to say this refers to the rapture? Do some believers go and some don't? What about the second coming? Do some believers go into the kingdom and some have to stay out of the kingdom? I don't understand...
     
    #9 Calvibaptist, Apr 13, 2006
  10. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    I confess that this is one of the parables I just don't get. I think maybe if I knew more about the traditions of the time, it might make more sense. Without that knowledge, all it says to me is "be prepared".
     
    #10 npetreley, Apr 13, 2006
  11. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sure, some believers go and some don't.

    2 Peter 1:10-11
    10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
    11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    2 Thessalonians 1:4-5
    4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:
    5 Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

    We must be worthy to inherit the kingdom. We must suffer for it.

    2 Timothy 2:12
    12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

    1 Corinthians 6:9-10
    9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
    10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

    We will stand before the judgment seat of Christ to be judged for the things done in the flesh. Who in their right mind would imagine for a moment that Jesus would say 'well done, thou good and faithful servant' to one that had not been a good and faithful servant? One thing I know for sure is that God cannot lie.
     
    #11 James_Newman, Apr 13, 2006
  12. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2002
    Messages:
    7,359
    Likes Received:
    2
    I want to be a vestal virgin. I don't really know what those are, but I'm hoping it means they get to wear really cool vests.
     
    #12 npetreley, Apr 13, 2006
  13. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    Verse 1 says it all: "Then shall the Kingdom of the Heavens..." It's all about inheritance, not spiritual salvation. It's about works and rewards.
     
    #13 Hope of Glory, Apr 13, 2006
  14. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2001
    Messages:
    2,782
    Likes Received:
    0
    Unless it did so here, in which case it sometimes does, so there.
     
    #14 Paul of Eugene, Apr 13, 2006
  15. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Mat 25:12 "But he replied, 'I assure you: I do not know you!'

    How can this verse refer to believers? Every other time this phrase is used, it is attached to being thrown into the lake of fire. I agree with calvibaptist. Just because the phrase "virgins" is used, does not automatically associate the five wise and five foolish virgins with believers.

    Another point to consider. Psalm 53:1 tells us that the "fool" says there is no God. Foolishness is different than ignorance. Foolishness stems from hearing the truth, and deliberately choosing not to believe in the truth, as was the case with this parable.
     
    #15 webdog, Apr 13, 2006
  16. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    How can the Lord not know someone when he formed them in their mother's womb? The 'know' that Jesus is speaking of is obviously not the mere knowledge of someone, nor even familiarity as the virgins are obviously familiar with the Lord. It is a 'know' that comes from fellowship with the Lord, walking in His word.

    Psalm 53:1 does not rule out the existence of religious fools. It is foolish to reject truth.
     
    #16 James_Newman, Apr 13, 2006
  17. webdog

    webdog Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,696
    Likes Received:
    2
    Mat 25:41 Then He will also say to those on the left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the Devil and his angels!

    In Jesus' parable of the virgins, He begins another parable and says the second is like the first....
    Matthew 25:14 "For it is just like a man going on a journey. He called his own slaves and turned over his possessions to them.

    These stories mirror each other. Verse 41 in context is the same as verses 11-12...
    Mat 25:11 "Later the rest of the virgins also came and said, 'Master, master, open up for us!'
    Mat 25:12 "But he replied, 'I assure you: I do not know you!'

    Both parables are an extension of what Jesus said in Matthew 7...

    Mat 7:22 On that day many will say to Me, 'Lord, Lord, didn't we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?'
    Mat 7:23 Then I will announce to them, 'I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!'
     
    #17 webdog, Apr 13, 2006
  18. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2004
    Messages:
    5,013
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not sure what your objection is, webdog. They are indeed two parables telling the same story.

    1 Corinthians 12:3
    3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
     
    #18 James_Newman, Apr 13, 2006
  19. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2005
    Messages:
    4,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    About goats: Numbers 18:17 "But the firstling of a cow, or the firstling of a sheep, or the firstling of a goat, thou shalt not redeem; they are holy: thou shalt sprinkle their blood upon the altar, and shalt burn their fat for an offering made by fire, for a sweet savour unto the LORD."

    Goats are holy, not unholy.
     
    #19 Hope of Glory, Apr 13, 2006
  20. StraightAndNarrow

    StraightAndNarrow Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 24, 2003
    Messages:
    2,508
    Likes Received:
    3
    The Kingdom of God = The Kingdom of Heaven

    The five foolish virgins are not prepared for the Second Coming of Christ and will be shut out of the kingdom (of Heaven). They will go to Hell.
     
    #20 StraightAndNarrow, Apr 14, 2006
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 7
Loading...