ugh.. now Im frustrated about the Passion

"the devil tempting Jesus in the garden of gethsemane is not in the bible, and I think that that extra-biblical addition could be in fact anti-biblical.. It never happened as far as we know.. so why are they adding something as significant as that only to dramatize it?"

Not sure how it could be unbiblical. Certainly the devil was around him at his most difficult times as he is with us.

Luke 4:13
When the devil had finished every temptation, he left Him until an opportune time.

How much more opportune can you get? In fact I would say that you are doing an extra biblical addition in saying he wasn't there.

As for the Monica Bellucci thing, I wish he had picked someone else, though I don't know that I would call her a porn star. But she had her clothes on in the movie. I didn't know he had any such actors in the cast. It doesn't change the image of what Christ did for me as was confirmed in the movie. In fact he did it for her too. Perhaps the movie will help her dress a bit better in the future.

Blessings

 

I think it is kind of appropriate for someone like Bellucci to play someone like Magdalene.

 

I agree Tom. Let he who has no sin...

 

"and unfortunately Mioque, I stumbled across some of Belluci's pornographic pictures when I was looking her up.."
PM me the link (I'm a heterosexual woman in her forties) I want to see with my own eyes.

 

Emily, you are correct. But you must recognize that Satan is spirit, not a physical presence as Jesus was.

What was being depicted is the struggle between good and evil; and that Jesus had submitted himself to the ravages of evil for the purpose of his sacrificial death for the atonement of sins. Mel Gibson was not attempting to say that satan had any power over Jesus. You will notice that Satan him/herself did not exert any physical power over Jesus. Take the scene in stride as a depiction of the struggle between good and evil.

 

Yes, seems the movie has it's own scandal. Much like the magdalene that followed Jesus around after he prevented her from being stoned to death, created no little amount of scandal to this very day with the De Vincie code. Jim Cavezal - Initicals JC, age 33 and the movie with it's own magdalene that the pharasees point the finger at and say, "look what company he keeps!".

Blessings

 

"I only saw the devil in the garden as unbiblical, because as I went through my gospels, I couldnt find any incedence of where the devil was.."

Once again, how does this make it unbiblical as opposed to an embellishment of the scriptures. And this it seems to me to be quite a logical embellishement. Once again I reiterate, it is more of an embellishment to say that the devil was not there.


Hebrews 2:18
For since He Himself was tempted in that which He has suffered, He is able to come to the aid of those who are tempted.

I think your pastor needs to do a bit more study of God's holy word.

Hebrews 4:15
For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin.

We are tempted daily. Christ was tempted daily. At our moments of greatest trial we are tempted the worst but God gives us the strength to resist. Christ was tempted throughout the crusifixitoin, from the garden to the grave. There is no doudt.


"If he was there.. please refer to scripture.. I would love to find out I was wrong.. trust me on this, as it would help me like the move a lot more.."

I think the first verse I posted does the job.

Blessings

 

I've been reading the posts on this movie with great interest. I'm still not sure if I will see it, but this has nothing to do with the theologies involved, just the graphic nature (which I am sensitive to).

From reading MANY posts in different forums, I've concluded that this is a movie with a point of view (in this case Catholic), and not actual scripture. Seeing this as a piece of art has given me perspective here. If I do decide to see the movie, I now know that I will see things I don't agree with but will see a passionate (for lack of a better word!) portrayal of Our Savior's sacrifice.

The closest parallel I can draw is the "Left Behind" books. While I do agree with much of the theology in these books, there are things I don't agree with. That has not affected my interest in them, and in reading them I use discretion. I'm still able to find much to contemplate.

Thanks to all of the contributors to these discussions. I've learned much from your facts and points of view!

 

"I don't agree with but will see a passionate (for lack of a better word!) portrayal of Our Savior's sacrifice."

I've listened to alot of Protestant talk radio on this movie. Actually from what I have heard the majority of Protestants I have listened to who are fundamentalists have little that they disagree with. The biggest thing that bothered them was a couple of Apostles calling Mary, Mother. As far as it not being the Bible, not everything is explicitly stated in the Bible. Was the devil at the Garden of Gethsemanea? It is not explicitly stated but I have little doudt from the verses I have posted about that he was. And there are others I could post that would indicate this as well. Therefore is it wrong for Mr. Gibson to portray him in some fashion? I think not. There is alot of Mary, kind of following along in the movie also. I have heard Baptist pastors say this was very "Catholic" but that it didn't really bother them. It is apparent from the Gospels that Mary followed Jesus minestry at least on some level. I think her silence with regard to Jesus crusifixion speaks a great deal regarding her faith, as compared to Peter's telling Jesus to deny the cross in Acts 17. Had Peter been silent something would have been lacking in the scriptures. Mary's silence since the wedding of Canna (even though she was apparently as I said, following his minestry) in fact speaks about her I believe. Sometimes silence speaks volumes. Jesus was certainly speaking to us when he was silent before his accusers. It is sad that many Christians, out of fear are unwilling to reflect on how the scriptures portray Mary, our Lord's Mother, except in a negative way. I am of course wondering why they weren't speaking King James English? Just Kidding.

Blessings

 

As a staunch Protestant and Calvinist I have no problem with that term though it is never stated they referred to her in that manner, except to John at the Cross. It is possible. She was a older woman and the mother of Jesus and a godly righteous woman and it would not suprise me if the Apostles out of respect for Mary refered to her as Mother.

 

Emily,

First off, I am glad that you found some interest in the church you attended. There is no perfect church on earth. They key is (1) are they teaching biblical truth; and (2) do enjoy fellowshipping with the people. The rest is trvial.

On the temptations of the devil, those people are probably confusing it with the temptations in the desert Read Matthew 4: 1-11; Mark 1: 12-13; Luke 4: 1-3.

There was no appearance of the devil in the garden. It was a time of personal and intimate relationship with the Father. They were alone. The scripture is clear on this. Read Mark 14: 26, 32-42; Matt 26:30, 36-46; Luke 22:39-46; John 18:1

These scriptures will give you the total picture, and you can draw your own conclusions.

As a Baptist, I quite agree that we do not give Mary the full credit and respect that she deserves. We will find our grave error when we cross the river into that glorious land called heaven. Sometimes we react to other religions and we become to radical in our surgical approach to scripture. I am not bowing to Rome, but prepared to acknowledge that not all is wrong and as the common saying goes, "throw out the baby with the bath water."

Cheers, and God bless,

Jim

PS My one granddaughter is Emily and her brithday is tomorrow, A Welsh National Day, March 1st..Dewi Sant Day

 

Thanks Thess for your input. I'd have to say that the things I'll be cautious of are things that are uniquely Catholic, because I'm not a Catholic.

The Veronica legend is the one at the forefront of my mind. I've read that she and Pilate's wife are represented in the movie. While these characters are extra-biblical, I understand that this movie is art. As such, I don't expect that it will be strictly scriptural.

 

JustAsIAm
"Seeing this as a piece of art has given me perspective here."
That's the smartest remark on the entire board for the past 2 weeks.

Emily
I followed your link, that website is probably intended as a portal into a pornographic paysite. Those pictures of Belluci on it however while very inapropriate are much to tame to make it into the Italian equivalent of Hustler.

 

I found this news article this morning and thought it might be of interest to someone.

Just some of the strange things that happen.

http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,112937,00.html

Workong for Him,

Tam,

 

that article is bogus.

 

Mt 27:19
While he was sitting on the judgment seat, his wife sent to him, saying, "Have nothing to do with that just Man, for I have suffered many things today in a dream because of Him."

JUST: Honorable and fair in one's dealings and actions: a just ruler. Consistent with what is morally right; righteous: a just cause.
Properly due or merited Law. Valid within the law; lawful: just claims.

Pilate's wife is mentioned in scripture and her tossing and turning is shown in the film. Yes, their conversations are added but again, this is a movie and if Claudia felt comfortable enough to send her husband a message while he was judging Jesus, they most probably talked and shared at other times.

Wonder.... does this term, 'just man', mean Claudia was possibly a believer?

Diane