Matthew 18:21-35

Hello Eladar.

Would you care to put some of these other verses down and I'll have a look at them.

johnp.

 

Yes He is right, as He always is right. However, we need to realize what the "Kingdom of Heaven" is.

Matthew is a gospel that focuses on the Kingdom of Heaven. In the NIV that phrase is used 32 times and ONLY in the book of Matthew.

We must then really ponder what the book means when it says the "Kingdom of Heaven." Jesus was telling the Jews that their Kingdom was here NOW. It was here and advancing, but they had to accept it before it could progress any further.

But they did not believe John and they rejected Christ. IF They had not rejected Him, the Kingdom of Heaven would have started then, but it did not. Now, the message has gone out to the Gentiles and they must wait again for the Kingdom of Heaven to come.

So, what does this have to do with your question? What Jesus taught was not always salvation. In this passage, as with much of the book of Matthew, Jesus is teaching the Jews about what THEIR Kingdom will be like. He is offering it to them, but they reject it. This Kingdom WILL still come, but that is AFTER the age of grace we are in now. So what about salvation, and those of us who are saved by grace? Will we be in that kingdom?

Yes! We will be, but not as subjects of the kings! We will be ruling with Him! In the time of the kingdom, we will be under a perfect law. For that 1000 year reign, people will only be forgiven IF they forgive. If they don't, their forgiveness will be revoked. This, however, is not a parable about salvation, but a parable about the Kingdom of Heaven, as Jesus clearly states. This is what the Kingdom of Heaven will be like, NOT how you get into it.

Read the book of Matthew and make note of every time you see the phrase Kingdom of Heaven. It makes for an awesome study when you don't assume every passage means salvation in this age. When we let Jesus' words speak for themselves and see what His message was for and why, it is really awesome. Of course, we can all learn lessons from these parables and can use them as examples, but like the law of the OT, the law of the Kingdom of Heaven is not for us today, it is merely applicable in principle and a good example for us to follow.

~Lorelei

 

Looks like somebody has been wrongly dividing the "word of Truth", making false distinctions between the "kingdom of heaven", the "kingdom of God", and salvation.

It makes for an even more awesome study when you realize that salvation and the kingdom of heaven are the same. It's especially awesome when we compare passages in Matthew with parallel pasages in the other Gospels.

Amen!

Such an interpretive framework is a doctrinal novelty unheard of in the first 1800+ years of Christianity.

DT

 

The novelty is taking a parable and making it teach the doctrine you want it to teach, something only those who "wrested the Scriptures to their own destruction" did, as Peter put it. Parables don't teach doctrine, and never did. They illustrate it. If you are drawing upon the parable for your doctrine then you are probably in error. The parable is there only to illustrate the doctrine that is already taught elsewhere.
DHK

 

Ah...the irony.

Talk about splitting hairs. One often teaches something with illustrations.

Which is a convenient out for those who don't like the implication that the message of the parable has for the validity of their particular a priori doctrinal belief systems.

I certainly agree that what is illustrated (taught) in the parable is usually also taught elsewhere in Scriptures. There are no contradictions in the messages of Christ's parables and other Scriptural teaching.

 

oki doki Eladar

johnp.

 

It is not wrongly dividing the Word to let the Words say what they actually say. It is wrongly dividing the Word of Truth to make the Words say what you already believe, even though it changes the entire context of the passage!

It is wrongly dividing the Word to assume that the words "The kingdom of heaven is like" means salvation and therefore add into that phrase the words "getting into" before them. It does NOT read "getting into the kingdom of heaven is like". This is not an instruction about how to get into the kingdom of heaven. If you think the words "kingdom of heaven" means "heaven" then you are saying that once in heaven you can get kicked out if you don't forgive someone while up in heaven.

The chapter in Matthew begins with Peter asking who is the greatest in the "Kingdom of Heaven." Who is the greatest in "salvation?" That doesn't work.

So, what does the phrase, "Who is the greatest in salvation" mean and how does one answer that?

The context of the passage is the Kingdom of Heaven, the Kingdom that Christ said would have come if Israel had accepted it.

Christ said "The Kingdom of Heaven" is like this. So I believe that the Kingdom of Heaven is going to be like this and I am the one wrongly dividing the Word of Truth simply because YOU never heard of it before? Read your texts, it has been taught since Jesus spoke it!

~Lorelei

 

Although I said Matthew was the only book to use the phrase Kingdom of Heaven, I do not believe it was the only book that taught about it. I do belive that Matthew was written mostly to a Jewish audience with the intent of addressing the Kingdom. All four gospels seemed to have different audiences in mind but all four are for everyone. Still, there are phrases in all them that apply to the promise of the kingdom to the Jews. There are phrases in all of them that were spoken with the law in mind. There were teachings in all of them about salvation. If you would like to find some particular parallels we can discuss those if you like.

However, I mentioned in the above post about how that Chapter in Matthew began with them asking who would be the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven. Luke and Mark both have these accounts, but a bit differently. They simply say they asked "who would be the greatest" or "who was the greatest." They never mention that they are referring to the Kingdom of Heaven, but by comparing all three accounts we realize that He was referring to the Kingdom of Heaven. That, however, was not the "main" focus of the pasage in these other accounts.

In that same chapter in Mark however, Christ does make reference that Elijah must come first and he had come but they did to them as they wished. This is referring to the promise to Isreal of their Kingdom to come. Elijah is to come before it.

So in short, the other gospels don't ignore the Kingdom, it is just not their main focus. Sometimes they did address it, so the parllel passages would be addressing the same thing. We must look at the context and the wording of the passage to find out and then compare it with all the other gospels.

I would love to discuss further what other parallels you might be concerned with. I love testing my own beliefs to see if indeed I can back them up with Scripture and not simply brush them off with explanations that imply Jesus did not say the Truth!

God Bless

~Lorelei

 

Hi Am a New member johnd,just like to say hello to all on the baptistBoard,
I have been looking in on the post on Matthew 18:21-35
when peter said to the Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me,and I forgive him? till seven times? jesus said unto him,I say not unto
thee, Until seventy times seven.That would come
to 490. But would it be likely that a Brother would sin on his Brother 490 time,Is it that the Lord would have use to forgive at all time,
After all is not that what the LORD has done?
The Lord then said to peter, in matthew 18:23 therefore is the kingdom of heaven [likened ] unto
a certin king,which would take account of his servents.18:24 And when he had begun to reckon,one was brought unto him, which owed ten thousand talents.
The Lord was speeking to them in a [parable]
So that thay could understand the parable
I think that we should all thank the Lord for we
have been forgive much more than ten thousand talents is not that what the Lord is saying to us
let us [forgive] just as the Lord has said that we should.

 

Hi johnd, God Bless you for illustrating the correct application of parrables and especially this one in Matt 18. God Bless you as well DHK. It is good to know there are other brothers and sisters in Christ who have taken 2Tim 2:15 to heart.

As for those brothers and sisters who are misled, I pray also that God will bless you as well. God does not desire confusion. Pray for truth and truth is what you will see.

Jesus Christ in me is all I need. If my forgiving abilities are not perfect, and they are not, nor is anyones, the blood of Christ will declare me perfect regardless. Praise Him!

For my Father to throw me into hell would be the same as Him throwing Jesus Christ in as well for I and Christ are one.

Unforgiveness is a sin and WHEN I am found to be less than perfect in forgiveness according to the law, I will be vindicated by the blood!

Shame on you guys who belittle the blood of the Lamb! You take a parrable and cling to it for doctrine building. I cling to Jesus Christ and will let doctrine be built upon this foundation alone.

God Bless!

 

Hi steaver.
It`s johnd, I was looking at Matthew 18:20
For where two or three are gathered together in my name,there am I in the midst of them.
I just Hope that when we all gather together,on are computers, That the Lord well be in the midst Of [us] and bless the fellowship, P T L

JOHND