I need to mellow out

Neal replied:

Besides, I am at fault for starting this, but I am extremely suprised by the way Carson reacted. I am not the only one who needs to give an apology.

Neal, listen to me.

I am the world's greatest sinner that I must admit it up front. Saying that, there have indeed been times when I have let my "mouth get ahead of my brain" and to correct it, may I be so bold as to give the correct approximate formula?

Here goes:

"(Name of person I offended), looking back upon what I have said, I know I am wrong, for which I sincerely apologize. Please forgive me."

Or similar wording. Don't add any caveats to your apology, but give it openly and without conditions. (And My Lord knows full well the time I have had to do this very thing!)

You just might be surprised as to the response you may get if you do this immediately and unconditionally, and see what the other individual comes back with!

A reconsiliation of friends is a great joy, when it is you who are at fault, to see the other individual come back in a total reconsiliatory manner, also admit to flaming the fire a bit!

Try it, you might like it!

That is all I am going to say on this subject - This thread has been abused enough....

God bless all in this conference,

PAX

Bill+†+


Rejoice not when thine enemy falleth, and let not
thine heart be glad when he stumbleth:
Lest the LORD see it, and it displease him, and he turn
away his wrath from him.
Proverbs 24:17-18

 

Hey, I have already told Carson why I asked and told him that I was sorry that I struck a nerve. I am not going to say I am sorry for asking because I am not, and that would be lying. Carson demonstrated the sort of arrogance that irks me by trying to define terms I use and pretend like I am some ignorant, backwoods hick. I pointed out that his comparison was incorrect and I am likened to a wall. So, while I am at fault for starting this and I am sorry that I caused Carson to fly into a frenzy, I am not sorry I asked. Again, if he forgets and others do as well, I am one of the few here that will actually listen to Catholic arguments and discuss issues with them civilly. I have read and listened to information and considered Catholic arguments as a result of encountering Catholics here, such as Carson and especially GraceSaves. No need to come at me with a battle axe. I don't see the sense in running off friends when you have enough enemies here.

Neal

 

"Just wondering something. Do you like to brag about yourself and your accomplishments?"

Neal, I think you would only go home happy with an affirmative answer..

"I have all the answer I need."

..which apparently is the answer you gave your own question before you asked it (your question itself insinuates that I was already bragging, which gives it an inditing character).

And the very act of asking an incriminating question in public while having already answered it for yourself privately is uncharitable in its nature. It is uncharitable in the sense of an attack.. ad hominem (your five years of Latin instruction - which I hope you weren't bragging about - come in handy here). I'm not addressing the purpose for your lack of charity; I'm addressing the fact that your initial question lacks charity in an imprudent manner.

"Carson demonstrated the sort of arrogance that irks me by trying to define terms I use and pretend like I am some ignorant, backwoods hick."

Translating a Latin phrase to English in examining its meaning is far from pretending like you are an "ignorant, backwoods hick", and your accusation is revealing of the perceptions you project upon others.

In any case, Neal, you're dead set on judging me, and I can't stop that. I can only tell you that you are not in a position where you should be doing that.

If your intention is not to judge but to edify, then the Personal Message function of this web board is a good place to start.. not the public domain.

[ May 17, 2003, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: Carson Weber ]

 

Fine Carson, you win.

No, Carson, I would have been happy with a "No, I don't see myself as bragging." Then I would no how to take posts with your accomplishments listed and pictures of you all over.

Actually, no, the answer truly came from the way you handled the situation and the things you said. Yes, I had an idea, which was the way I was taking you, but I asked the question to see if I was taking you the wrong way or not. The way you responded merely confirmed my own feeling, thus giving me all the answer I need.

Have all your posts demonstrated charity?

Hmm....glad you know what I am thinking. Funny, I have stated otherwise in my subsequent posts.

Your recommendation has been duly noted for future reference.

Anyway, I'm through. I have told you my intention and stated that I respect you greatly. I just feel you brag a lot. I will turn off my feeling button next time I come in contact with you. I am not attacking or judging you. If you still choose not to believe me that is your problem, not mine.

You have made a mountain out of a molehill. I asked a simple question that could have been answered with one sentence, yet you want to portray yourself as a poor, persecuted Catholic. I have defended Catholics on this board and have, for the most part, been cordial to them when discussing their beliefs (except for Bro. Ed a time or two, but we worked that out ). So if you really want to continue, go ahead, have at it. Slam me all you want, I don't care. I won't respond in this thread any longer, so feel free to say whatever. But, if you don't believe me, I will say it one more time: Carson, I have no animosity or ill-will towards you. I am sure you are a great guy and I know that you know what your are talking about when it comes to the Catholic faith.

Neal

[ May 17, 2003, 03:32 AM: Message edited by: neal4christ ]

 

Sorry, but I will post one more thing.

I DO NOT THINK THAT CARSON IS AN EVIL PERSON. I DO NOT THINK HE IS SOME HORRIBLE CATHOLIC THAT IS THE ANTICHRIST. I MERELY ASKED MY QUESTION BECAUSE I HAVE SEEN HIM TALK ABOUT HIMSELF A LOT SINCE I HAVE BEEN IN THIS FORUM. IT WAS AN INNOCENT QUESTION. I AM SORRY FOR ANY DAMAGE IT HAS CAUSED HIS CHARACTER AND NEXT TIME I WILL ASK HIM PRIVATELY.

Neal

 

This is for Neal:

God bless and keep you, my friend!

PAX

Bill+†+


Lord, grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change,
the courage to change the things that I can,
and the wisdom to know the difference.
Living one day at a time,
enjoying one moment at a time;
accepting hardship as a pathway to peace;
taking, as Jesus did, this sinful world as it is,
not as I would have it;
trusting that you will make all things right
if I surrender to Your will;
so that I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with You forever in the next.
Amen.

 

Carson, I have no animosity or ill-will towards you.

I AM SORRY FOR ANY DAMAGE IT HAS CAUSED HIS CHARACTER AND NEXT TIME I WILL ASK HIM PRIVATELY.

The feeling is mutual, Neal. I have a respect for you and hold no grudge against you. I accept your apology, and I ask for your forgiveness for any lack of charity on my part in the ensuing dialogue.

"Lord, I do not know what will happen to me today. I only know that nothing will happen that was not forseen by You and directed to my greater good from all eternity. I adore your holy and unfathomable plans and submit to them with all my heart for love of You.." (my morning offering)

I'm glad that we are both able to grow from this experience, gaining a greater love and respect for one another, fulfilling our Lord's prayer, and growing in wisdom regarding dialogue, esp. with regard to the act of respect for our kinsmen in Christ.

Christ's peace be with you, the peace I give to you. And praised be Jesus Christ!

[ May 17, 2003, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Carson Weber ]

 

I suggest a book I'm reading at this moment on Padre Pio at present: Meet Padre Pio - Beloved Mystic, Miracle-Worker, and Spiritual Guide by Patricia Treece (Ann Arbor: Servant Publications, 2001). It's very insightful and an easy read at 141 pages with generous line spacing.

I just finished this text, and it was very inspiring and informative. I never knew that John Paul II as Fr. Karol Wojtyla (before he was elected pope) had visited Padre Pio in San Giovanni Rotondo for spiritual direction and confession. It was JPII who subsequently beatified (1999) and canonized (2002) St. Pio.

I have two twin friends who are students at our university (http://www.franciscan.edu) who have a family testimony involving Padre Pio, which entails their parents meeting through the miraculous intervention of Padre Pio in San Giovanni Rotondo when he was still alive in the 60's. Their testimony is too long to repeat here, but it is worth mentioning.

Last night, during my holy hour, I was praying, and in my prayer, I started thinking about Padre Pio because I was still in the middle of reading this text about him.. and I then noticed a book lying on a shelf of the kneeler in front of the chair I was sitting in, which is entitled Padre Pio: The True Story by Bernard C. Ruffin. I thumbed through it (324 pages), and found 16 pages of photographs from throughout his life - some of which were of the stigmata Pio bore between 1918 and 1968. Perhaps one day I'll have the opportunity to read this text as well.

 

Speaking of books, when reading this tonight, I was prompted to share it on the board.. this is a great - yet lenghty - quote!

In The Splendor of the Church, Henri Cardinal de Lubac writes (San Francisco: Ignatius, 1995), 273-275:

"It is she who daily teaches us the law of Christ, giving us his Gospel and helping us to understand its meaning. It is hard to imagine where the Gospel would be or what state it would have reached us in if, per impossible, it had not been composed, preserved, and commented on within the great Catholic community - hard to picture the deformation and mutilation it would have suffered both as it text and as to interpretation ... But there is, after all, no need to have resource to these hypotheses; history speaks forcefully enough. There is no counting the number of aberrations that have been based upon an appeal to the Gospel, or the number of those who have, in consequence of them, lapsed into "atheistic and impious doctrines or stupid and ridiculous beliefs". Origen had already noticed this, and that great biblical thinker did not hesitate to point a warning finger at "the temptation hidden in the reading of the sacred books", when they are not read in the Church. And our own day adds its own lessons to those of the past. "The meaning of the written mystery can belong only to the social unity that carries within itself the revelation of that mystery"; and although we may say, with St. Francis de Sales, that "Scripture is entirely adequate to tach us all things", in a certain sense, we should also add, as he did, that "it is in us that there lies the inadequacy since, without Tradition and the magisterium of the Church, we should not be able to determine the meaning that it ought to have." Thus, when we consult Tradition and listen to the Magisterium, "it is not that we prefer the Church to the Scriptures but, rather, the explanation of the Scriptures given by the whole Church to our own explanation." We believe that the Word of God is "addressed to the Church", and that is precisely why we listen to it and read it in the Church. We do not, however, praise the Church - as has been done on several occasions - for having surrounded the Gospel with a protective covering so as to render it "inoffensive", or for having purged it of its "impure miasmas". For praise of that kind would be the worst of blasphemies. The Church has neither glossed over the paradoxes of the Gospel nor changed its vividness or sentimentalized its power nor betrayed its spirit. The Church is always the paradise in the midst of which the Gospel wells up like a spring and spreads out into four rivers to make the whole earth fruitful. Thanks to the Church, the Gospel is proposed to all, both the great and the small of the world, from generation to generation, and if it does not produce in us its fruition of life, the fault is ours."

 

In fact the apostacy of the CAtholic church is predicted in 2Thess 2 and in Acts 20 Paul says "that from among your own selves" the false teacher were to arise.

Roman Catholic historians publically admit that when Rome adopted Catholicism - the Catholic church embraced paganism.

This is not a case of "mean-ol non-Catholics" reading history. It is a case of Catholic historians themselves - printing it.

And yet....We welcome the opportunity to ask our Catholic bretheren to read - their own historians and believe them as they are to some degree frank and honest about the actual "events".

In Christ,

Bob

 

They did. Their names were Arius, Montanus, Donatus and others including Luther, Calvin, Melancthon, and Zwingli. And it wasn't the Apostasy OF the Catholic Church it was apostasy FROM the Cathlic Church.

Must be a book I haven’t read. Quotes please.

Thanks and God Bless