This just in from the Vatican: The Pope's journey to the Cross

Sorry, was bothered by the blatant factual error here. Check your Greek text (any one of them) and you will notice in Matthew 16.19 that Christ used "soi" [masc. dat. singular second person personal pronoun] - "to you (Peter)...." In fact, all the verbs are second person singular (i.e. - to Peter).

Now, I don't believe the Pope sits in Peter's seat... that is a perversion of this passage and others. Other people made cogent points about calling men Father. By no means do I support Roman Catholicism. Far from it!! But you are not going to convince an RC of his error if you are going to use outdated, factually incorrect arguments which Catholic theologians will rightly destroy.

If you want other people to be honest and Biblical in their arguments, then you need to be so as well. </font>[/QUOTE]I really don't care what you think of my interpretation of the scripture. I just read it from the KJV as it is written there.

We don't need to run to the greek for every little jot and tittle, because if we did there would be alot of people who would not understand scripture at all, because they might not have a greek dictionary!!!



Tam

 

Interesting Tam, where do you read in your Bible "Thou art Peter, and upon your statement that I am the Christ I will build my church"?

This is far more than a jot and tittle.

Check out Ephesians 2v20 - Jesus is the chief cornerstone, but upon what foundation was the church built?

 

What? No takers on this?

 

Purely human reasoning.

What one man led the people during the Divided Kingdom? What one man led the people during the Babylonian Exile? What one man led the people in the Intertestemental Period? The last time God's people were led by one man, other than Christ, was during Solomon's reign.

 

C4K said: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interesting Tam, where do you read in your Bible "Thou art Peter, and upon your statement that I am the Christ I will build my church"?

This is far more than a jot and tittle.

Check out Ephesians 2v20 - Jesus is the chief cornerstone, but upon what foundation was the church built?
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Matthew-1615 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.(you have received the truth from God Simon Barjona)
18 And I say also unto thee, (and here is another truth for you that we both know)That thou art Peter, and upon this rock(rock of truth) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The bold words are mine to show what I think Jesus is saying. Jesus said "I am the way the Truth and the Life" Jesus is also the rock!!

Argue all you want, but if you open your eyes, you will see it! My church is built on Jesus. Build yours on whoever you want. It doesn't matter to me.

Selah,

Tam

 

The bold words are yours and yours alone, based on what you think. rmp1978 showed you what the Greek texts say, not his opinion or what he thinks the text says.

Hmm, Tam's opinions or the Greek texts - which should I trust?

 

Hmm... we don't need to be concerned with jots and tittles? I think Christ would disagree with you there.

*starts flipping through his Bible, looking for other places he can change the meaning to, based on infidelity to plenary inspiration*

 

These are actually the words of Jesus Christ Himself, not jots and tittles.

 

(duplicate post)

 

FORGET THE JOTS AND TITTLES!!!!

I was just trying to make a point about the text, and as usual, folks are trying to lead us off on rabbit trails!!

C4K you are right, as I said, what I put in bold is my opinion. By all means believe the greek over my rendition!!!

However, even when I read the greek, (small rock, big rock) I still come up with the same answer. Go figure.

Tam

 

Tam I'm with you!
Jesus is the Rock!.... not Peter! The Rock was the truth that Jesus was the Christ. Not Peter....or else we would be building our church/foundation on Peter not the truth that Jesus is Lord.

Jesus tells us in parables when speaking of the wise man......
Luke 6:48 -
He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.


or what about who Paul said was the Rock?

1Cor 10:4 -
And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.


Music4Him

 

</font>[/QUOTE]Well I thought Jesus was still leading the people today???? I thought He said that he left his Spirit here? Go look it up in John and see.

How is peter suppost to lead after he was dead? If he was suppost to appoint another to lead after him it would state this in the bible.

Do you all honestly believe that God would abandon all His children and leave them with no physical leader on earth after all those years of providing one for them?

Thats why God provided/sent Jesus. He didn't die hes still alive. I trust in Him... not man.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BTW, Just a question to ask yourself (and theres no need to answer it here on the board). When you start feeling sick do you turn to God first and call on Him in prayer..... or do you call on a man called a doctor?

Music4Him

 

The explaination is quite simple folks:

Jesus is the chief cornerstone - the very rock on which the church is built. (Ephesians 2v20)
Peter and the apostles were used as foundation stones for the church. (Matthew 16v18; Ephesians 2v20)
Beleivers today are the "lively stones" that make up the church (1 Peter 2v5)


'78's point above is valid - use your interpretation to a Catholic apologist and he will rip it to shreds and have textual grounds to do so. We are much better off to have a solid answer than to base our thoughts on making a passage say what we want it to say.

 

An objective(?) look:

We have over a billion people following a religion based on one or two scriptures which are highly contestable and unsupported: in fact contradicted by hundreds of very plain scriptures.

Is someone being given over to strong delusion--that they would believe a lie?

Let God be found true--and every man a liar.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

He does and yes He sent His spirit.

But God is not the author of confusion. How can the Holy Spirit be leading all these different denominations? How can people claim to start a new denomination based on "it was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit"?

Every Catholic Bishop can show his line of spiritual descent, that is, who consecrated him, who consecrated his consecrator, and so on, all the way back to the Apostles.

Mt 28:19-20, "Go therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and behold, I am with you all days, even unto the consummation of the world."

Did the Apostles live long enough to "make disciples of all nations"? Did they make disciples of Mexico, or Canada, or Brazil, or America, or of hundreds of other countries? If not the Apostles, then who did?

Acts 20:28
Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God[a] which He purchased with His own blood.

Acts 6:5-7 And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.

And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.


2Tim 2:2, "...and the things that thou hast heard from me through many witnesses, commend to trustworthy men who shall be competent in turn to teach others."

This verse clearly tells us that the truth of the Apostles will be passed on to competent teachers. The Bishops of the Church are the teaching authority. How can the truth be passed on trustworthily and with authority unless there is a succession of competent teachers?

 

Amen Bro. James!!

tam

 

quote by Living4Him:
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But God is not the author of confusion. How can the Holy Spirit be leading all these different denominations? How can people claim to start a new denomination based on "it was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit"?
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Because the devil is the author of confusion and so "so called" denominations probley arn't being led by the Holy Spirit. Thats why we hold them up to the light of Gods Word....by their fruit you will know them. Also check out their salvation message. BTW, if they don't preach the Jesus in the bible, but lift a man up on this earth today higher in his stead RUN! Its a pretty sure bet they are a false denomination (fer sure).

Music4Him