Purgatory Or The Judgment Seat of Christ?

Hi Ray,

You wrote, "Do I think I could commit adultery and die directly after this experience without forgiveness and still go to Heaven. Yes.

For the Galatians, Saint Paul describes the works of the flesh as "fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, party spirit, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like" and he follows this list with "I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:19-21).

Paul does not say, "Those who do such things will have a lesser place in the kingdom".

Nor does he say, "Those who do such things will be punished but only for a time and they will still be included in the kingdom".

Nor does he say, "Those who do such things will be barely saved".

Nor does he say, "Those who do such things will have those things burned as 'stubble' and their soul will still be saved by Christ because of His unconditional covenant with us, because of our vibrant faith and trust in Jesus Christ."

No, none of what you have just proposed in your reply to me above are given as options by Saint Paul.

Paul warned the Galatians, "I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (Galatians 5:21b).

I would think that you would have a greater subservience to God's Holy, Sacred, and Inspired Word than that, Ray. What gives? Why are you ignoring the clear sense of what Paul tells us in order to uphold the unbiblical tradition of men that states that salvation cannot be lost by the Christian?

 

Hi Yelsew,

You wrote, "According to the Doctrine of Purgatory ... Jesus would have died in vain!"

Purgatory is simply the last stage of sanctification. Sanctification in this life involves pain, for "For the Lord disciplines him whom he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives. . . . [And] For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant" (Hebrews 12:6, 11), yet no one says that suffering infringes on Christ's sufferings. In the same way, the suffering during the final sanctification in no way infringes on Christ's sufferings or implies they were insufficient.

Quite the contrary! The fact is that the suffering we experience in sanctification in this life is something we receive because of Christ's sacrifice for us. His sufferings paid the price for us to be sanctified, and his sufferings paid the price for the whole of our sanctification -- both the initial and final parts. Thus it is because of Christ's sacrifice that we receive the final sanctification in the first place! If he had not suffered, we would not be given the final sanctification (or the glorification to which it leads), but would go straight to hell. Thus purgatory does not imply Christ's sufferings were insufficient; rather it is because of Christ's sufferings that we are given the final sanctification of purgatory in the first place!

Scripture tells us to "strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord" (Heb 12:14). Our personal holiness is not optional; it is a prerequisite for the heavenly vision in heaven when we will see the Lord "face to face" (1 Cor 13:12). For "nothing unclean shall enter" heaven (Rev 21:27). This is the purpose that the Christian "will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor 3:15).

 

It seems the scriptures that you provided all have their focus on this present natural life, and nothing whatever to do with the spirit of man after death.

The doctrine of purgatory seems to misapply these scriptures. That would be wrongly dividing the word of Truth.

 

It seems the scriptures that you provided all have their focus on this present natural life

Paul tells us that the Christian "will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire" (1 Cor 3:15). This pertains to man after his natural death.

 

Hi Ray,

You made what seems to be a really clever dodge in being confronted with Paul's warning in Galatians 5:19-21.

Of course, I don't buy your dodge. Strong's interprets prasso as

AV - do 28, commit 5, exact 1, require 1, deed 1, keep 1, use arts 1; 38.

Paul is clear. Those who commit such sins shall not inherit the kingdom of God, and no amount of "oh, but the Greek.. you must pay attention to the Greek" will do the trick of avoiding the clear implications of his words because, essentially, the Greek doesn't give us any new inside scoop that allows for the OSAS tradition.

Also, your response is inconsistent.

You wrote, "The difference between a Christian is he does not make a practice of sinning; the sinner makes a practice of sinning"

After making this dichotomy, you stated, "Whenever a Christian tries to persist in sinning, the Lord will chasten that one."

What else is "to persist in sinning" than to "make a practice of sinning"? You're creating false distinctions in order to protect your OSAS tradition:

"The non-Christian makes a practice of sinning whereas the Christian can only persist in sinning. While the non-Christian goes to hell, the Christian is merely chastized."

The real nail in the coffin, Ray, is that Paul - in Galatians - is writing to Christians.

 

I agree, but that does not prove "purgatory". What Paul is talking about is the works of man are to be tested. For one whose works were consumed in the fire in the manner of wood, hay, and stubble, that one will survive, as if through fire. If you have ever suffered a fire that destroyed all that you possessed, you can understand "surviving as if through fire". That which you acquired and "cherished" that was part of "who you are" is gone but you remain, devastated, but alive. That is the illustration that Paul gives.

If you want to call that purgatory, OK! But scriptures call that testing of your works! And not redeeming or further refinement of your soul.

 

Purgatory is a place of torment according to the RCC. So "bad" is it - that the entire system of "indulgences" is geared to "get loved ones out of there".

You are not considered to be a good or loving child if you make no effort to free your family members from that horrible place by earning whatever indulgences you can for them.

There is just no good way to put lipstick on that pig.

In Christ,

Bob