VIRGIN MARY

Catholic in the creed means universal church it does not stand for RCC.

Definition of Catholic: of, relating to, or forming the church universal: of, relating to, or forming the ancient undivided Christian church or a church claiming historical continuity from it.

Jesus only established one faith, not the thousands that are found now.

I was raised in an IFB home and school.

We were taught in school that the pilgrims and the puritians who founded America where our ancestors in faith.

Conveniently, they failed to mention that these very people baptized their infants.

Imagine my shock when I found historical evidence that stated they baptized infants and consider all those who rejected infant baptism as heretics.

 

What person founded what denomination?

Christianity: Jesus Christ, year 33, His Universal, Catholic Church, starting with St. Peter

Michael Cerularius, 1054 (Orthodox)

Martin Luther , 1517 (Protestants, Lutherans)

Zwingli, 1519 (Anabaptists, Hutterines, Mennonites, German Baptists, Dunkwards, Moravians, Separatists, Congregationalists, The Amish, Baptists)

Henry VIII, 1534 (Church of England, Methodists, Puritans, Episcopalians, Separatists, Congregationalists, Baptists, Quakers, Shakers, Unitarians, Universalism)

Calvin , 1536 (Presbyterians, Duth Reformed, Huguenots, Puritans, Congregationalists)

Knox, 1560 (Presbyterians)

Cartwright, 1570 (Puritans)

Brown, 1582 (Congregationalists)

John Smith, 1605 (Baptists)

Seabury, 1620 (Episcopalians)

Fox, 1654 (Quakers)

Ann Lee, 1741 (Shakers)

Wesley, 1744 (Methodists)

Lindsay, 1774 (Unitarians)

Campbell and Stone, 1800 (Churches of Christ, Christian Church)

Miller, 1846 (Adventists)

Jones, 1865 (Salvation Army)

Parham, 1900 (Pentecostals)

 

"unless one is born of water(meaning the pysical birth, the water of a mothers womb) and Born of the spirit(recieving the Holy Spirit)

For those who don't know what it means to recieve the Holy Spirit:

Genesis 1:26a (KJV) And God said let us make man in our image, after our likeness...

why does God say us, and our? Because God is 3 in one: God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, some people know it better as the Trinity God is 3 personalities, but one God.

So God made man a 3 part being too, body, soul, and spirit. In Gods image man was made 3 parts that are one as well. The Body is like the temple that contains soul, and spirit, the soul is the part that will exist forever, and the spirit is the part that we have communication, and a relationship to God through, it is the part that discerns the Bible, and allows God to hear our prayers (Romans 8:26), the Bible tells us that "the Holy Spirit Maketh intercession for us"

Genesis 2:17 (KJV) But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shall surly die.
When man ate of the fruit of the tree of life (the forbidden fruit) mans spirit died. Man lost his relationship with God, man did not physically die, nor did his soul, it was his spirit that died.

Until the ten commandments man lived in sin, and because of mans sinful nature, man could not live up to the ten commandments, so sacrifices were made to God, and mans sins were forgiven through the payment of blood. Thruout the old testament the Messiah was prophesized, and Jesus Christ fulfilled everyone of the prophesies: from the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10), Heir to the throne of David (Isaiah 9:6-7), Born in Bethlehem (Micah 5:2), At the appointed time (Daniel 9:25), Born of a virgin (Isaiah 7:14), Declared to be the Son of God (Psalm 35:11), Would be a prophet (Deuteronomy 18:15), Rejected by his own (Isaiah 53:3), Entered Jerusalem as a King riding on an ass (Zechariah 9:9), sold for 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11:12), Accused by false witnesses(Psalm 35:11), silent to accusations(Isaiah 53:7), Spat upon, and smitten(Isaiah 50:6), hated without a cause(Psalm 35:19), the sacrificial Lamb (Isaiah 53:5), crucified with criminals(Isaiah 53:12), the list goes on...

Jesus tells us (John 3:3)...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.

Even Nicodemus asked "can he enter a second time into his mothers womb?"

John 3:5 Verily, Verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (the physical birth, referring of the water in the womb of our mothers) and of the Spirit (the spiritual birth, that reunites Body, soul, and spirit), he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

Now some may be wondering how does one get Born again?

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
John 3:16 For God So loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

We are all sinners Romans 6:23 all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God
If we die in our sins; we will go to an eternal hell.
Romans 6:23a the wages of sin is death...
Revelations 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

If you have not trusted Jesus Christ as your Lord, and Savior, then you are right now on the broad road that leads to hell.

Jesus died in your place
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners Christ Died for us.

Christ died on the cross for our sins. He was the perfect sacrifice for our sin. He died and rose again according to the scriptures so that we can have eternal life.

Eternal life is a free gift You can have salvation today
Romans 6:23b...the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The gift of eternal life (Heaven) is freely given. It is yours if you will, by faith, receive Jesus Christ into your heart.
Revelation 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: If any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and sup with him, and he with me.

You can have salvation today
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Only Jesus can save you. Nothing else can. By child-like faith, trust Him. Call upon Him right now.

1) Admit you are a sinner
2) be willing to turn from sin (repent)
3) believe that Jesus died for you, was buried, and rose from the dead.
4) Through prayer, invite him into your life to become your personal savior.

For example:
Dear Heavenly Father, I am a sinner and need forgiveness. I believe that Jesus shed his precious blood and died for my sins, I am willing to turn from sin, I now invite the Lord Jesus Christ into my heart, and my life as my personal savior, in the name of the Lord Jesus Amen.

 

Baptism is Salvific, Not Just Symbolic

Matt. 28:19-20 - Jesus commands the apostles to baptize all people "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." Many Protestant churches are now teaching that baptism is only a symbolic ritual, and not what actually cleanses us from original sin. This belief contradicts Scripture and the 2,000 year-old teaching of the Church.

Acts 2:38 - Peter commands them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ in order to be actually forgiven of sin, not just to partake of a symbolic ritual.

Matt. 28:19-20; Acts 2:38 - there is nothing in these passages or elsewhere in the Bible about baptism being symbolic. There is also nothing about just accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior in order to be saved.

Mark 16:16 - Jesus said "He who believes AND is baptized will be saved." Jesus says believing is not enough. Baptism is also required. This is because baptism is salvific, not just symbolic. The Greek text also does not mandate any specific order for belief and baptism, so the verse proves nothing about a “believer’s baptism.”

John 3:3,5 - unless we are "born again" of water and Spirit in baptism, we cannot enter into the kingdom of God. The Greek word for the phrase "born again" is "anothen" which literally means “begotten from above.” See, for example, John 3:31 where "anothen" is so used. Baptism brings about salvation, not just a symbolism of our salvation.

Acts 8:12-13; 36; 10:47 - if belief is all one needs to be saved, why is everyone instantly baptized after learning of Jesus?

Acts 16:15; 31-33; 18:8; 19:2,5 - these texts present more examples of people learning of Jesus, and then immediately being baptized. If accepting Jesus as personal Lord and Savior is all one needs to do to be saved, then why does everyone in the early Church immediately seek baptism?

Acts 9:18 - Paul, even though he was directly chosen by Christ and immediately converted to Christianity, still had to be baptized to be forgiven his sin. This is a powerful text which demonstrates the salvific efficacy of water baptism, even for those who decide to give their lives to Christ.

Acts 22:16 - Ananias tells Paul, "arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins," even though Paul was converted directly by Jesus Christ. This proves that Paul's acceptance of Jesus as personal Lord and Savior was not enough to be forgiven of his sin and saved. The sacrament of baptism is required.

Acts 22:16 - further, Ananias' phrase "wash away" comes from the Greek word "apolouo." "Apolouo" means an actual cleansing which removes sin. It is not a symbolic covering up of sin. Even though Jesus chose Paul directly in a heavenly revelation, Paul had to be baptized to have his sins washed away.

Rom. 6:4 - in baptism, we actually die with Christ so that we, like Him, might be raised to newness of life. This means that, by virtue of our baptism, our sufferings are not in vain. They are joined to Christ and become efficacious for our salvation.

1 Cor. 6:11 - Paul says they were washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, in reference to baptism. The “washing” of baptism gives birth to sanctification and justification, which proves baptism is not just symbolic.

Gal. 3:27 - whoever is baptized in Christ puts on Christ. Putting on Christ is not just symbolic. Christ actually dwells within our soul.

Col. 2:12 - in baptism, we literally die with Christ and are raised with Christ. It is a supernatural reality, not just a symbolic ritual. The Scriptures never refer to baptism as symbolic.

Titus 3:5-7 – “He saved us by the washing of regeneration and renewal in the Holy Spirit, which He poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ, so that we might be justified by His grace and become heirs of eternal life.” This is a powerful text which proves that baptism regenerates our souls and is thus salvific. The “washing of regeneration” “saves us.” Regeneration is never symbolic, and the phrase “saved us” refers to salvation. By baptism, we become justified by His grace (interior change) and heirs of eternal life (filial adoption). Because this refers to baptism, the verse is about the beginning of the life in Christ. No righteous deeds done before baptism could save us. Righteous deeds after baptism are necessary for our salvation.

There is also a definite parallel between John 3:5 and Titus 3:5: (1) John 3:5 – enter the kingdom of God / Titus 3:5 – He saved us. (2) John 3:5 – born of water / Titus 3:5 – washing. (3) John 3:5 – born of the Spirit / Titus 3:5 – renewal in the Spirit.

Heb. 10:22 - in baptism, our hearts are sprinkled clean from an evil conscience (again, dealing with the interior of the person) as our bodies are washed with pure water (the waters of baptism). Baptism regenerates us because it removes original sin, sanctifies our souls, and effects our adoption as sons and daughters in Jesus Christ.

1 Peter 3:21 - Peter expressly writes that “baptism, corresponding to Noah's ark, now saves you; not as a removal of dirt from the body, but for a clear conscience. “ Hence, the verse demonstrates that baptism is salvific (it saves us), and deals with the interior life of the person (purifying the conscience, like Heb. 10:22), and not the external life (removing dirt from the body). Many scholars believe the phrase "not as a removal of dirt from the body" is in reference to the Jewish ceremony of circumcision (but, at a minimum, shows that baptism is not about the exterior, but interior life). Baptism is now the “circumcision” of the new Covenant (Col. 2:11-12), but it, unlike the old circumcision, actually saves us, as Noah and his family were saved by water.

Again, notice the parallel between Heb. 10:22 and 1 Peter 3:21: (1) Heb. 10:22 – draw near to the sanctuary (heaven) / 1 Peter 3:21 – now saves us. (2) Heb. 10:22 – sprinkled clean, washed with pure water / 1 Peter 3:20-21 – saved through water, baptism. (3) Heb. 10:22 – from an evil conscience (interior) / 1 Peter 3:21 – for a clear conscience (interior). Titus 3:6 and 1 Peter 3:21 also specifically say the grace and power of baptism comes “through Jesus Christ” (who transforms our inner nature).

Mark 16:16 - Jesus says that he who believes and is baptized will be saved. However, the Church has always taught that baptism is a normative, not an absolute necessity. There are some exceptions to the rule because God is not bound by His sacraments.

Luke 23:43 - the good thief, although not baptized, shows that there is also a baptism by desire, as Jesus says to him that he will be in paradise. It should also be noted that when Jesus uses the word "paradise," He did not mean heaven. Paradise, from the Hebrew "sheol" meant the realm of the righteous dead. This was the place of the dead who were destined for heaven, but who were captive until the Lord's resurrection. Hence, the good thief was destined for heaven because of his desire to be with Jesus.

Matt. 20:22-23; Mark 10:38-39; Luke 12:50 - there is also a baptism by blood. Lord says, "I have a baptism to be baptized with" referring to His death. Hence, the Church has always taught that those martyred for the faith may be saved without water baptism (e.g., the Holy Innocents).

Mark 10:38 - Jesus says "are you able...to be baptized with the baptism with which I am baptized?," referring to His death.

1 John 5:6 - Jesus came by water and blood. He was baptized by both water and blood. Martyrs are baptized by blood.

 

Show me one time in the bible a baby was baptized, all examples I can find showed first they were believers, then they were Baptized, Baptizim happens after you are Born Again.

 

That is correct, here is some food for thought, In the last days, the key to pulling all the religions together is the worship of the satanic mother goddess. Almost a billion Muslims will jion because the virgin Mary was carefuly placed in thier Holy book, the Koran. Even the new agers refer to a mother/child god. Satanis posers will impersonate Mary in future apperitions of the virgin world wide, including communist countries, to bring the world under Satans anti-Christ. Beloved, Catholic families have been betrayed for centuries, Jesus Christ himself said: Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues (Revelation 18:4) Belive on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:31)

 

Living4Him stated,

1. "The “washing” of baptism gives birth to sanctification and justification, which proves baptism is not just symbolic."

2. And "Baptism regenerates us because it removes original sin, sanctifies our souls, and effects our adoption as sons and daughters in Jesus Christ."

3. "Baptism brings about salvation, not just a symbolism of our salvation."

Living4Him, you are still saying that WE have to do something to be saved. It is like saying the blood of Jesus was not enough. I do not agree with you and the statement about baptism bringing salvation is like saying the cross was not enough, lets throw some water into the mix. Just like mixing blood and water, you are diluting the very beauty of the FREE gift of salvation.

Baptism also does not remove the sin--it is the BLOOD that removes the sin and makes it white as snow.

 

That is a fact , the Ana-Baptist was established some 500 years before Catholicism.

 

Really I was taught in my IFB home and school that Baptist were persicuted by the Protistants, and Catholics, and puritans, and that each faith pretty much had its own state, or colony, the Baptist had Roahd island.

 

Living4Him,

I am curious if you believe that a person has to be a baptised member of the RCC to go to heaven? Also, do you believe that you church is built on Peter or the Lord Jesus Christ?

 

Living for him you are not properly discerning the scripture:
1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

 

Look if you will in John chapter 3. From verse 1 to verse 36 there is no mention of baptism, none whatsoever. To force verse five to mean baptism is to take the word out of its context and make it mean something it was not meant to mean. That is not sound exegesis.
Jesus told Nicodemus 3 times: "You must be born again." That is the emphasis. You must be born again. But how? Consider:

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

There are two kinds of birth: once of the flesh and another of the Spirit. Everyone is born of the flesh (that is how we got into this world); but not everyone is born of the Spirit. Thus you must be born again. You must be born of the Spirit in order to be born into God's family. You are already born into a physical family, now you must be born into God's family. And so verse 5 says:

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

We know that the word "Spirit" refers to the Holy Spirit, so there is no problem here. But what does the word "water" refer to? The Greek word means "water." It is H2O, water. It gets you wet. It has no magical properties to wash away sin. That is a superstition. There is no reference here to baptism. It does not say baptism; it says water. Now the word water may be symbolic, and I believe it is, but it is not referring to baptism. What then does it refer to? Well, what is the usual purpose of water? It is usually used as a cleansing agent. It is important to remember in this passage that there are two and only two agents involved: water and the Spirit. One is born again of only two agents. First the water.

John 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
--Water is a cleansing agent. John says the Word is a cleansing agent. We are made clean through the Word. Therefore water is symbolic of the Word.

James 1:18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.
--God begat us (or we are born again) with the word of truth. We are born again by the Word of God. Water symbolizes the Word of God. Remember there are only two agents by which one is born again: the Holy Spirit, and the Word of God.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
--Here the Scripture is very plain. Being born again by the Word of God. There are only two agents by which one is born again: the Word of God and the Holy Spirit. The Scripture does not contradict itself.
The water in John 3:5 clearly refers to the Word of God, by which a person is born again.

It doesn't matter what the early fathers believed. Our authority is the Word of God. That is what we must go by. If your authority is the church fathers then do you accept Origen's teaching, the Father of Arianism, who was declared an heretic.
Do you accept Ireneus's teaching, who believed that Jesus lived until he was 80 years old? Our authority is the Word of God, not the word of man.

Neither did any monkey. It doesn't make one iota of difference to me what they believed. What did the Word of God say?

Not true. This is one of the earliest heresies of the church. It is not taught by the apostles. It is not taught in the Word of God. If it were you would be able to demonstrate it using the Word of God alone, but you can't.

So you can quote from some heretics. Demonstrate from the Word of God that it is a Biblical doctrine. Why can't you do that?

"The early fathers..." This is a recording..This is a recording.
1Pet.3:20,21 does not refer to salvation by baptism when properly understood. What saved Noah? Was it the water, that destroyed everything in sight, or was it the ark in the water. The ark was a picture of Christ? You have to understand the full picture, an illustration, to understand what Peter was saying. He also clarifies himself when he says: "The like figure whereunto even baptism." It was a similie, a picture.

And so it is. But not infant baptism. Only believers baptism. Immersion after salvation by faith alone.

It is unfortunate that you don't understand what Darby is saying here. He is speaking of its significance. What he believes baptism symbolizes, and that is all. He is also speaking of believer's baptism not infant baptism. Everything he says goes against everything you believe.
DHK

 

Jesus tells us (John 3:3)...Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.

Even Nicodemus asked "can he enter a second time into his mothers womb ?"

John 3:5 Verily, Verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water (the physical birth, referring of the water in the womb of our mothers) and of the Spirit (the spiritual birth, that reunites Body, soul, and spirit), he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.

The verse has nothing to do with baptisim, it is talking about birth-Pysical, and spiritual.

 

That is a possible interpretation Rooster, one that some believe. We can agree to disagree there, as long as we are emphatic that it cannot mean baptism.
DHK

 

Acts 2
37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"
38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off--for all whom the Lord our God will call."
40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.

Children are included! Three thousand including children

 

If you want to stick to the Bible how do you explain this?

Luke 18
15People were also bringing babies to Jesus to have him touch them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. 16But Jesus called the children to him and said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. 17I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it."

 

What shall we do? REPENT and be baptized.
Have you ever seen an infant repent? I haven't.
Repentance belongs to those of maturity. Infants cannot repent. One has to be able to reason before they can repent. There were no children that were baptized here.
DHK