That Which Is Perfect

Ok - taking 1Cor 13 - very slowly - so nothing can be missed here.

In Christ,

Bob

 

As we read on, we have good evidence before us to conclude that all the spiritual gifts ended in the apostolic age near the end of the first century, at the completion of the canon of Scripture.
Take tongues as just one example. As you cited, tongues was a sign to the unbelievers. Yet today it is being used for everything else but a sign for the unbelievers. The typical Charismatic will tell you that tongues is used for:
1. a personal prayer life.
2. to edify the church.
3. to edify one another, or oneself.
4. as a sign of being baptized with the Holy Spirit
5. as a sign of salvation

None of the above is true. It was a sign to the unbeliever, specifically the unbelieving Jew.
It ceased at the end of the first century. We have no historical evidence of believers speaking in tongues for the next 1800 years, except in the occasional heretical sect. Then at the beginning of the 20th Century the modern day tongue movement began. But it was totally foreign to anything that was ever described or spoken of in the Bible. The tongues in the Bible were always real languages: unknown to the person speaking it, but known to the one hearing it. That is why it was a gift, and why it was miraculous. Today’s tongues is just speaking gibberish. It is nonsense syllables run together with no intelligent meaning at all, unless it is put there by demons.

1Cor.14:21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
--Verse 22 says that tongues is a sign for unbelievers. Now take a look at verse 21.
“In the law it is written…” This is a quote from Isaiah.. Paul quoting Isaiah, says “with men of other tongues…will I speak unto ‘this people.” Who does “this people” refer to? Coming straight from the Book of Isaiah, it is referring to the nation of Israel. The Lord told the nation of Israel that he would speak to them with men of other tongues and other lips, and yet they still would not believe. That age has come and pass. In the apostolic age the unbelieving Jews were given the chance to believe the gospel, verified by the sign of tongues, and still they rejected Christ. Tongues was a sign to the unbelieving Jew. If there are no unbelieving Jews present when people are speaking in tongues nowadays, the exercise of this so-called gift is fruitless, and obviously not of God. It ceased at the end of the first century, along with the other spiritual gifts.

Prophecy is not a sign for saints; it was a spiritual gift given to the saints of the churches in the first century. It was a gift—a miraculous spiritual gift, that no one today has.
As an aside I believe that Bob cannot look at this passage objectively, but of necessity must take the stand that spiritual gifts, especially prophecy, have continued. The entire SDA movement stands or falls on the legitimacy of these gifts. If the gifts have ceased, as some of us claim, then Ellen G. White is clearly a false prophet, because the gift is no longer in effect. When faced with such a dilemma it is hard to look at a passage like this with any objectivity.

In chapter 14, the gift of tongues and the gift of prophecy are contrasted. Basically Paul shows that tongues without interpretation only causes chaos and confusion. It becomes a useless gift. The emphasis in chapter 14 is always put on edification, and on understanding. If your gift is without understanding, without edification (for the entire church), then don’t use it.
The prophetic gift was two-fold: both of fore-telling, and of forth-telling the Word of God. Like the Old Testament prophet he was able at times to look into the future, but that wasn’t his primary gift. His primary gift was deliberating God’s Word, however that would still be a miraculous gift, because it would be no doubt be mostly New Testament knowledge that He would be preaching. In other words the gift of prophecy would work closely with the gift of knowledge (revelatory knowledge0; that knowledge which God had not yet revealed in written form to the apostles, he revealed it to some who were given this miraculous gift of knowledge, that they might have access to the knowledge of the New Testament before “that which is perfect (New Testament) is come.”
There are no prophets today, and haven’t been since the end of the New Testament. There have only been false prophets: Benny Hinn, William Branham, Charles Taze Russell, and a host of others. The miraculous gift of prophecy ceased by the end of the first century, and all the prophets with it.

--All three of these gifts (prophecy, tongues, revelatory knowledge) were being used precisely for the reason that the Word of God was not yet complete. Tongues alone served a dual purpose—for edification of the church with an interpreter if all other conditions were met., and for a sign to the unbelieving Jew. Prophecy (as was knowledge) given to edify the church, to give them understanding. Why? They didn’t have the completed Word, as we do today. We don’t need those gifts; we have the entire Bible. Everything we need to know about God is contained within the pages of the entire Bible. They didn’t have all 66 books then. Thus God gave them spiritual gifts to rely upon for a temporary period of time.

 

As already pointed out (maybe a dozen times?) this is the big weakness in your argument - and your entire case depends on making it from scripture.

The point above "3 gifts given because scripture is regarded as incomplete" is never made in all of the NT. There is no text saying "because God's Word is incomplete - we have these 3 additional spiritual gifts".

The entire "idea" as stated above - that is so key to your point - is completely absent from scripture. There are no "Not yet complete" statements in the NT regarding God's word "as if" we "need something else today UNTIL the Word of God is written down with the last few letters of Johh".

It just isn't there.

In Christ,

Bob

 

As already pointed out (maybe a dozen times?) this is the big weakness in your argument - and your entire case depends on making it from scripture.

The point above "3 gifts given because scripture is regarded as incomplete" is never made in all of the NT. There is no text saying "because God's Word is incomplete - we have these 3 additional spiritual gifts".

The entire "idea" as stated above - that is so key to your point - is completely absent from scripture. There are no "Not yet complete" statements in the NT regarding God's word "as if" we "need something else today UNTIL the Word of God is written down with the last few letters of Johh".

It just isn't there.
</font>[/QUOTE]It is there Bob, for all who will accept the Scripture. It is as plain as can be.

We know in part and we prophesy in part.
What part did they know?
Why then did they prophesy "in part?"

The answers are obvious.
They knew in part--had part of the Bible--the Old Testament.
They prophesied in part--only for a part of the time was prophesy given. They did have part (part of the revelation of God), just not the whole part--that part which was made up with prophecy and other revelatory gifts until the complete or perfect was come at the end of the first century. It is all right there in verses 8-13 of 1Cor.13.
DHK