Why do the saints obey God's Commandments in Rev 12:17?

Christians need to realize who THE ELECT really are!

WHO ARE THE REMNANT according to the Bible?


Rv:12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Was this promise made to the Jews alone?
"Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee: and I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: and I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." Genesis 12:1-3. If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:19.


Why did God make His promise to the seed of Abraham?
"Because that Abraham obeyed My voice, and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws." Gen. 26:5.


What will the children of Abraham do?
"Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham."

John 8:39.


When the Jews claimed to the "The Children of Abraham" Jesus said:


John 8:

31: Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
32: And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
33: They answered him, We be Abraham's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free?
34: Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
35: And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever.
36: If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
37: I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you.
38: I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.
39: They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
40: But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
41: Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
42: Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
43: Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44: Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.


Jesus informed the Jews that IT DID NOT MATTER WHAT THEIR LINEAGE WAS... as long as they were transgressing God's Law ... living in SIN... claiming to love God yet planning to sin and murder His Son, Jesus... they weren't any more the "children of Abraham" than were the heathen down the street! The Jews who rejected Christ, and ANYBODY WHO CLAIMS TO BE A CHRISTIAN TODAY that doesnt keep God's commandments, are NOT the children of Abraham! NOT AT ALL! They are NOT THE CHOSEN... they are NOT THE ELECT! They are lost sinners, just like anybody else who have refused to do what God clearly told them to do!


1Jn:3:8: He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


1Jn:3:10: In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.


Who are the children of Abraham?
"And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal.3:29.


1Cor:7:19: "Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God." -In other words, to God, circumcision means nothing and uncircumcision means nothing, but what MATTERS is that you keep the commandments of God!


WHO ARE THE REMNANT according to the Bible?


Rv:12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


ANYBODY can be "the elect" ... your lineage doesnt matter, if you CHOOSE to turn to God and obey His commandments!


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The End of the Law? Has the Law ended because of Christ dying on the cross? Some do not understand Biblical language.


To the believer what does Christ become?
"For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth." Rom. 10:4.


In what sense is the word end (Greek, telos) sometimes used in the Scriptures? Object, intention, or design?
"Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord." James 5:11.


What was the object of the law?
"And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death." Rom. 7:10.


What is charity, or love?
"Love worketh no ill to his neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." Rom. 13:10 (1

John 5:3).


Why did God send His Son to the world?
"For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us." Rom. 8:3, 4.


Then what is one enabled to do through Christ?
"That the requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us." Rom. 8:4


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What further is the end, or object, of the law?
"Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart." 1 Tim. 1:5.


Now compare with who are THE ELECT:


2Peter 1:
1: Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2: Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3: According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5: And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6: And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7: And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8: For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9: But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10: Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


NOTICE, Peter tells us to climb the ladder of perfection of character, and says that CHARITY is at the top of it... Remember: What further is the end, or object, of the law?
"Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart." 1 Tim. 1:5. That doesnt mean if you have charity that the law is abolished! It means you have fulfilled the requirements of the law and have reached it's perfection, it's object, it's design!


AND Peter said that "he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to MAKE YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE: for IF YE DO THESE THINGS, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."


You will be granted entrance into heaven IF you do these things! THAT is the ONLY description of "Bible election"!!


Revelation 22:
12: And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
13: I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


EVERY MAN is rewarded according to his WORKS and according to whether or not they KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS AT THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST!! I dont care if you claim to be "saved by grace" ... I dont care if you claim to be "the Chosen of God" ... I dont care if you are a Jew or a Gentile, I don't care if you are a Calvinist, I don't care if you are black or white, and I don't care if you are a Roman Catholic and believe there is some sort of "Apostolic Succession" that sets your Church denomination above all others, because EVERY MAN is measured by the exact same standard! "God is no respecter of persons" [Acts 10:34]. Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS is righteous, even as he IS righteous. [1Jn:3:7] ...No matter if you try to claim to be righteousness before God due to your lineage, race, religion or by being "under grace", -you will not be seen as being righteous before God UNLESS you DO RIGHTEOUSNESS, just as Jesus DID RIGHTEOUSNESS! That's what the BIBLE teaches.


Jews and Gentile alike will be just as lost if they refuse to obey God! Likewise, whether you are a Jew or a Gentile, ANYBODY can be saved, who accepts Jesus as the Messiah, has faith in Him and keeps His commandments! ANYBODY!


Again, at the second coming of Christ, are we saved because we are of a certain lineage? are we saved because we profess to believe in Christ? Are we saved because we are a member of a certain church?


John 5:
28: Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29: And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


NO! It will be according to what you have DONE! ...according to your WORKS!
The sheep and the goats, according to what they have DONE [The goats who did not do good works were placed on the left hand of Christ. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire. Matthew 25:41]. The faithful and unfaithful Servants, according to what they have DONE. [And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 25:30] The wise and foolish Virgins, according to whether or not they "knew Jesus". Mt:7:23: "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Lawlessness)" [and the door was shut Matthew 25:10]


Some Christians have their ideas about being "God's Elect" ..yet they feel that their works and keeping the commandments have nothing to do with salvation are completely deceived! ...As is anybody else who believes that for some reason they are "God's Elect" but think they dont have to do what God tells them to do! There are so many false theories out there about who "the Elect" are, yet the Bible is CLEAR on this point.


Matthew 3:
1: In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
2: And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
3: For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4: And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
5: Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
6: And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
7: But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
8: Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:
9: And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.
10: And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.


EVERY TREE that doesnt bear good fruit will be cast into the fire, I dont care if you view yourself as "the Elect" or as "Abraham's Children" or anything else!


Claudia

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http://www.christiangraphics.org
http://www.countrymanordesigns.com
http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org

 

Then secondly, the other basic problems lots of Christians have is that they dont understand the relation of Faith and Works of the Law. They see the Bible verses that talk about being justified by faith alone and so then when they also see the verses that say we are justified by works or any other verses about keeping the law, the commandments... they make the false assumption that these verses ought to be just ignored as if they didnt even exist.

Zwingli, the Swiss Reformer, had arrived at a clearer understanding of it the Bible's truths, and had more fully experienced in himself its renewing power. The fall of man and the plan of redemption were the subjects upon which he dwelt. "In Adam," he said, "we are all dead, sunk in corruption and condemnation." --Wylie, b. 8, ch. 9. "Christ . . . has purchased for us a never-ending redemption. . . . His passion is . . . an eternal sacrifice, and everlastingly effectual to heal; it satisfies the divine justice forever in behalf of all those who rely upon it with firm and unshaken faith." Yet he clearly taught that men are not, because of the grace of Christ, free to continue in sin. "Wherever there is faith in God, there God is; and wherever God abideth, there a zeal exists urging and impelling men to good works."--D'Aubigne, b. 8, ch. 9.

The Bible DOES say we are justified by faith and not by the law:

Rom:5:1: Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Gal:2:16: Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal:2:17: But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

But the Bible ALSO say this:

Rom:2:13: (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

Jms:1:22: But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

What? How can we be justified only by faith and not by the deeds of the law and then also be justified by being DOERS of the law?

The answer lies here:

Gal:3:11: But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Jms:2:18: Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

Jms:2:21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Jms:2:24: Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

Jms:2:25: Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?


True GENUINE faith leads to keeping the commandments. We keep the commandments BY FAITH. And "love" is exactly the same thing as keeping the law... (see Romans 13:8-10).

If we dont have love, if we dont keep the commandments, this is EVIDENCE we do not have true genuine faith.

Rv:14:12: Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, AND the faith of Jesus.

Rv:12:17: And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rv:22:14: Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.


In other words, the DOING of the law never justifies by DOERS of the law are the ones who will be justified... those who do the law by faith in Jesus and through Christ's power. Because they have faith and thus will keep the law.


Claudia

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http://www.christiangraphics.org
http://www.countrymanordesigns.com
http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org

 

Jesus said:

Matthew 7:
19: Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20: Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21: Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22: Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23: And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Jesus said that the time will come when so many professed Christians will claim they cast out devils, were in the church choir, gave tithe and so on... and taught about God in the streets but then Jesus will say to them "I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." "Iniquity" means LAWLESSNESS or sin.

Jesus will say "I never KNEW YOU".

1Jn:2:3: And hereby we do know that we KNOW him, if we keep his commandments.


1Jn:2:4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1Jn:3:22: And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

1Jn:3:24: And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jn:5:2: By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jn:5:3: For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

2Jn:1:6: And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.


You just cant ignore the many many Bible verses about keeping the commandments... well, you can, but not with good results.

Claudia

 

No Bob, I don't say these okes are wrong with their translations. But as they all show, or intend to show, is that the saints don't have two things they obey and believe, but only the One, Jesus. To obey God's Commandments IS the Faith of Jesus, and to have the Faith of Jesus, IS to obey the Commandments of God. Christ has pre-eminence.

 

I agree with you that having faith in Jesus is what makes the keeping of the commandments valid.
In Christ,
Bob

CGE:
I’m afraid we do not agree “that having faith in Jesus is what makes the keeping of the commandments valid.” Nothing in or about our faith or in or about our keeping of the commandments “is what makes the commandments valid”.
If in Christ and if Christ, the Commandments of God are valid. If written on stone the commandments of God are valid ONLY because Christ has taken their place in Himself. We look to Jesus and all the Written Code as contained in Him. “We see Jesus” the song from a Scripture goes. When one has seen salvation, what does he still need to see a list of sin-definitions for? A list of sin-definitions in any case seen much clearer, much vaster, and much more forcefully brought home “In Christ”? I know my sin because I know my Redeemer – or is known by Him; I know my sin because I know what I am forgiven! I know my duty because I know my Lord – or is known by Him. I know my duty because I have been acquainted with my privileges and Great Prize. I know my duty and debt because I am made a debtor and slave of Jesus Christ. I know my JOY, Saviour God, Jesus Christ – or rather am known by Him!

 

luke
1:6
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

According to Jesus Christ, this law is scheduled to outlast the present universe. The spiritual principles they express are as eternal and unchanging as the Almighty Himself. In his famous Sermon on the Mount, Jesus categorically stated that the law of God will outlast the present universe. No one should presume to teach otherwise.

http://atschool.eduweb.co.uk/sbs777/laws/tenlaws.html

 

luke
1:6
And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless. </font>[/QUOTE]Ah, this was a gracious acknowledgement of their status in Christ, and you know it ful well. It doesn't mean they were transgressing-less, sinless or whatsoever. Paul for example greets the Churches so graciously one might if taking his words literally think they were without sin. Paul would have been the first to object!

 

Sure Bob, everything you say (mostly by quoting Scripture) is true.
Imagine Paul, and the Believers he wrote to - think od yourself - what have you got in your mind's eye? Must I ask what you follow or WHO you follow? Who - or what - in your own heart as in the heart of Paul and those early Christian - what or WHO, is your STANDARD. Whom do pray to; WHOM di you consult? Of WHOM do you ask forgiveness of your sins - or do you ask the Law (engraven in stone), Please forgive me - it was against you, o Ten Commandments, that I sinned?
I'm convinced you being a Christian and no Jew, see Christ before you; realise when you sin it was against HIM; feel sorry because you disappointed HIM. Happily feast your Sabbaths -Seventh Day - knowing HE is your Standard and your 'Distinctive' as with regard to it too! You keep the Sabbath because you are a Christian, man! Not because you are a Jew - not because of 'the Fourth Commandment', but because of THE LORD who in capacity of LORD is "everything in all for all" Christian and for all Christians.
Who talked about 'rebel' etc.? Who talked about Sunday-sacredness? It is only the WHY? FOR WHOSE SAKE? I'm talking of. And I stand by the Object of Christian Faith, the LIVING LORD JESUS CHRIST as the LIVING STANDARD OF FAITH AND PRACTICE in both the life of the Church (unto Sabbath-keeping) and of the individual believer (unto Sabbath-keeping) for HIS NAME'S SAKE NOT SHARED WITH ANYTHING BE IT THE TEN COMMANDMENTS.