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Why Sunday can NOT be the Lord's Day

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by wopik, Oct 21, 2004.

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  1. Johnv

    Johnv New Member

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    Music4him brings up a good point. If I may expound, the Sabbath day (regardless of the day it's observed) was designed for us. It was designed for us to be used as a day of rest. If you're resting from work, but are doing all the housework on that day, are you really resting?

    I encourage everyone to do yourself a favor. Take a day of the week and truly, truly rest. Relax. Let your body recouperate from the work of the rest of the week. You deserve it, and God gave you that day to bless you in.
     
    #41 Johnv, Oct 25, 2004
  2. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Colossians 2:16-17 -- Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day-- things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

    Romans 14:5 -- One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.
     
    #42 Alcott, Oct 25, 2004
  3. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Where does it say NOT to observe the holy days and Sabbath in this verse?

    Colossians 2:16 assumes they are keeping the holydays,etc., and says don't let anyone judge you for it. This is 'rock solid' proof that the mostly gentile Colossian church was keeping these days.

    Here is my question? What is there about being 'a shadow' that means you don't do it? And if it is a shadow of things to come, then it hasn't been fulfilled yet --- and if it hasn't been fulfilled yet, why would anyone assume it's been done away with?
     
    #43 wopik, Oct 25, 2004
  4. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    It would take the reasoning ability of a magpie to deduce it's "rock solid proof" that they were keeping those days. No one is to judge in regard to these things. Besides, did they keep unnamed festivals? (likely) new moons? (doubtful). As to food and drink, you can find in other of Paul's writings you can eat what you want to. The stiuplation so often missed in this verse is "don't let anyone act as your judge." I assure you I do not judge anybody for keeping a sabbath, but I also refuse to let anyone judge me in regard to it-- precisely as the verse says.

    When David walked "through the valley of the shadow of death," did he really die, or did he live to write that? More relevant, Hebrews 10:1 says the law and sacrifices are a shadow which could never make anything perfect-- so should we carry those out? Your contention here does not hold up, and you do not even really believe it if you are not burning animal carcasses on an altar.

    My answer: If we have the fulfillment in Jesus Christ we have no need of its "shadows." What is your answer on that one?
     
    #44 Alcott, Oct 25, 2004
  5. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
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    #45 Ben W, Oct 26, 2004
  6. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    if Jesus fulfilled the Sabbath day, why is Paul still calling it a 'shadow' some 40 years after Jesus' Passion?

    something is a shadow of what is to come

    Perhaps this is talking about the 1000 year Millenial rest, and that the Sabbath is a shadow of that rest ---- "there remains a keeping of a Sabbath to the people of God" - Hebrews 4:9.
     
    #46 wopik, Oct 26, 2004
  7. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    For the same reason the writer of Hebrews (Paul or not) says the temple sacrifices are a "shadow."

    Now, back to the argument you copped out on... At what point or line on the globe is the "sundown" on the 6th day of the week the sundown on 5th day of the week any distance east of it?
     
    #47 Alcott, Oct 26, 2004
  8. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    I have no idea. This is not how I study the Bible.

    People all over the world just keep saturday or sunday when ever it comes to them. I really can't discuss this anymore.

    The old saying applies here: if satan can't get at you any other way, he'll waste your time.
     
    #48 wopik, Oct 26, 2004
  9. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    Oh, has he been doing that? Smart move of yours then, to instigate the argument with this thread in the first place.

    You really took a tumble, though, from "a specific 24 hour period holy to God" to "keep saturday or sunday when ever it comes to them."
     
    #49 Alcott, Oct 26, 2004
  10. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    God Bless you, Alcott.
     
    #50 wopik, Oct 28, 2004
  11. tamborine lady

    tamborine lady Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    Unless you are perfect and have never made a mistake in the way you said something, I suggest you drop it.

    What Wopik said (or the way he said it) does not negate the fact that the sabbath exists between fri at sundown and sat at sundown NO MATTER WHERE YOU ARE ON THE PLANET!!


    [​IMG]

    Tam
     
    #51 tamborine lady, Oct 28, 2004
  12. music4Him

    music4Him New Member

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    Amen Tam! [​IMG]
     
    #52 music4Him, Oct 28, 2004
  13. Seth3

    Seth3 New Member

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    The Sabbath made for man is the day the Lord made for us=The Cross.The entering into the finished work of Christ wherein God is seen beforehand resting from His work finished in Christ. Come unto Me you will find Rest for your souls. They who laboured under the law working under the curses of it expressed as "no rest day or night" find their release from the law and rest for their souls in the finished work of Christ (The True Sabbath). We are to Enter into the good things already here in Christ. Before Christ these were but shadows of the day the Lord had made, the reality however is in Christ and Him in us.


    Heb 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].

    Heb4:3 For we which have believed do ENTER INTO REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

    Heb4:4 For he spake in a CERTAIN PLACE of the seventh [day] on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.

    Heb 4:5 And in this [place] again, If they shall enter into my rest.

    Heb 4:6 Seeing therefore it “remaineth" that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached ENTERED NOT IN because of unbelief


    Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

    Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his "own works", as God [did] from his.

    Heb 4:11 Let us LABOUR THEREFORE TO ENTER into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.


    God bless

    Seth3

    [ October 28, 2004, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: Seth3 ]
     
    #53 Seth3, Oct 28, 2004
  14. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene New Member

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    Does this include for those who overwinter at the South Pole, where the sun doesn't show for six months? :eek:

    Personally, I think that God's providence came and took away our obligation to keep the Sabbath in plenty of time before it ever became a south pole problem. But those who have seventh day observation issues would really have to think out their position if they were assigned to serve some time there!
     
    #54 Paul of Eugene, Oct 28, 2004
  15. Paul of Eugene

    Paul of Eugene New Member

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    And pity the poor inhabitants of the international space station! Going from sun to no sun every two hours!
     
    #55 Paul of Eugene, Oct 28, 2004
  16. Seth3

    Seth3 New Member

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    Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.


    God Bless

    Seth3
     
    #56 Seth3, Oct 28, 2004
  17. tamborine lady

    tamborine lady Active Member

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    [​IMG]

    I think Seth just explained it best.

    Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

    Work it out for yourself. Do it however works for you.

    I will leave it at that.

    Working for Jesus,

    Tam


    [​IMG] :D
     
    #57 tamborine lady, Oct 28, 2004
  18. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Hi to all the wonderful folks!

    Is Paul speaking about the Sabbath here?

    In Romans 14:5, 6, Paul wrote:

    "One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.

    "He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it.

    "He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks."


    Something else is going on here. This doesn't sound like it has anything to do with worship days at all.

    Who has a good commentary -- or online commentary???

    http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/
     
    #58 wopik, Oct 28, 2004
  19. wopik

    wopik New Member

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    Romans 14

    The passage in question about days is in verses 5 and 6, immediately between references to eating meat and vegetarianism in verses 2, 3 and 6.

    There is no biblical connection between Sabbath observance and vegetarianism, so these verses have to be taken out of context to assume that Paul was referring to the Sabbath.

    "The close contextual association with eating suggests that Paul has in mind a special day set apart for observance as a time for feasting or as a time for fasting" (Everett F. Harrison, The Expositor's Bible Commentary, Vol. 10, p. 146).

    It is apparent that Paul was discussing Roman or other special days during which feasting, fasting or abstaining from certain foods was practiced.

    The context shows us that some members of the congregation there were eating meat, and others were abstaining from eating meat.


    The vegetarians were likely members who "feared lest they should (without knowing it) eat meat which had been offered to idols or was otherwise ceremonially unclean (which might easily happen in such a place as Rome), that they abstained from meat altogether" (W.J. Conybeare and J.S. Howson, The Life and Epistles of St. Paul, p. 530).
     
    #59 wopik, Oct 28, 2004
  20. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    You can see how much truth is in this guy by how much truth is in this statement of his and his subsequent posts.
     
    #60 Alcott, Oct 28, 2004
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