Why Sunday can NOT be the Lord's Day

Better Question Wop,
How many people have you led to Christ?
I've never met a SDA who preaches anything but the Sabbath.
The Commandment is to "Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy".
No where does it say congregate and take part in formal worship.
So, if I consider everyday Holy, which I do, it's up to you and SDA's of the earth to point me in the right direction? You keep workin' on your great commission, and leave the "real" great commission to the rest of us. we'll see where the rewards fall in heaven. Or, you could get off this tired old arguement,add up the time you've spent on this site alone, and go witness to one lost soul adding to the kingdom of our Saviour.

 

Now in full.

Exodus 20
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

When read in its entirety, it just does not say what some people say it does. It simply says to rest one day in six and the reason why - not rocket science folks.

 

And those of us who have no day to "defend" will also be adamant about someone passing judgement on that in violation of Romans 14:5,6; even with someone who "can't discuss this anymore," but was obviously lying when he said that.

 

Yes... Each man gives an account of Himself to the Lord who judges.


God Bless

Seth3

 

Take a closer look at Romans 14 (the verse you are not quoting but referencing) one man observes one day ABOVE another while another OBSERVES EVERY Day.

#1. There was no custom among Pagans or Jews for keeping EVERY day holy as a non-work day.

#2. There WAS a practice of obesrving EVERY Holy Day (See Lev 23) or simply keeping ONE of those Holy Days listed in God's Word ABOVE another.

You have attempted to revise this "as if" there was any such thing as never working and keeping all days of the week as a Sabbath Holy day of rest.

You are missing the entire point of the argument concerning actual Biblical holy days addressed in Romans 14.

Further - as we read Isaiah 66 and Gen 2:3 God is not making the point "all mankind shall NOT serve me SIX days but ONLY recognize my Lordship one day a week" as you seem to imply. The Lordship and sovereignty of God is applicable to all days as is his role as Savior. But HIS sovereign appointment of His Seventh day Sabbath "remains".

In Christ,

Bob

 

The point remains.

The Christian of the NT - had only the OT as their scripture. Indeed - it is the Word of God. This was used by both Jews and Gentiles as "The Bible".

Obviously.

In "The Bible" they only had ONE set of Holy Days - and God gave this to them in Lev 23.

This is the "really easy part".

In Romans 14 we have the same issues addressed as we see in Acts and in 1 Corinthians.

Meat offerred to idols (The Jews were never told to be vegetarian but as Paul says in 1Cor "I would never eat meat again if that causes my brother to stumble" regarding meat offerred to idols).

The issue is the same in Romans. Same church, same century, same author, same problem confronted by Jewish and Gentile Christians.

In the case of Holy Days - it is "again the same issue as we see in Col 2. The list of Holy Days where ONE observes ONE Holy Day ABOVE another while yet another man OBSERVES ALL the Holy Days.

There never was an issue of Jews or Gentiles observing NO Holy Days -- or the issue of Jews and Gentiles never working because EVERY week day is a Holy Day.

People simply "make that up" as it suits their needs - but the issue was never raised by NT saints NOR do we find Paul mentioning the idea that some Christians kept every week day Holy - as a day of sacred rest (LEV 23) so that they never worked at all... NOR do we see any mention in all of scripture of the people of God "keeping NO day Holy".

These obvious facts my not fit what some on this board "need" to find in scripture -- but they are the facts of scripture none-the-less.

FP may prefer that these facts be buried in the depths of the sea and that we not "notice them" - I am not one of those that would argue for such a case.

In Christ,

Bob

 

In the end - the question of the 4th commandment comes down to the Ten Commandments. What did you do with them?

Abolish them?

If so - this discussion on commandment number 4 - out of 10 that have all been abolished is pointless.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Bob says,

But HIS sovereign appointment of His Seventh day Sabbath "remains".

Seth3 replies

Yes Bob in relation to this day there REMAINS a SABBATH REST (A DAY SEEN AS THE SEVENTH) which some have NOT ENTERED=REST and have not Ceased from their Labor "under the Law" into the Faith of Christ and His finished work.

I see it literally spiritual you see it literally natural. We are free to see it differently and we must each give an account to the Lord who judges us.

God Bless

Seth3

 

About Romans Chapter 14:

Notice that the entire chapter is on judging one another (Verses 4,10,13).

The issue here is not over the seventh-day Sabbath, which was a part of the great moral law, but over the yearly feast days of the ceremonial law.

Jewish Christians were judging Gentile Christians for not observing them. Paul is simply saying, "Do not judge each other. The ceremonial law is no longer binding".

 

Jesus said: Mt:15:3: "Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?" It is not acceptable to God for men and women to create their own commandments, to change God's commandments.

If you are a PROTESTANT, you need to know something. Protestants have always kept the true Sabbath, which is the 7th day. God said that was the Sabbath.


WHAT MARTIN LUTHER SAID ABOUT THE SABBATH:
"They allege the Sabbath changed into Sunday, the Lord's day, contrary to the Decalogue, as it appear, neither is there any example more boasted of than the changing of the Sabbath day. Great, they say, is the power and authority of the church, since it dispensed with one of the Ten Commandments." Martin Luther, Augsburg Confession of Faith, art. 28.

Now read what the Roman Catholic Church says about the Sunday Sabbath. It is crucial that Protestants realize who they are aligning themselves with if they observe the Sunday Sabbath. The Papacy! "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws. " Daniel 7.25. :

"The Pope is of so great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret, even divine laws....The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth with most ample power of binding and loosing the sheep."-From the Prompta Bibliotheca published in 1900 in Rome by the press of the propaganda.

"The pope has power to change times, to abrogate laws, and to dispense with all things, even the precepts of Christ."-Decretal de Translat, Episcop. Cap.

The pope's will stands for reason. He can dispense above the law, and of wrong make right by correcting and changing laws."-Pope Nicholas, Dis. 96.

It is within the inspired words "think to change times and laws" that we discover the "mark of the beast."

The following are all authentic quotations that will definitely answer our questions as to what the "mark of the beast" is. Notice them carefully.

"The Catholic Church for over one thousand years before the existence of a Protestant, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."-Catholic Mirror, Sept. 23, 1893.

You will notice in this information that the Church declares that it was not God Who changed the day from Saturday to Sunday but that they, the papists, were the ones who made this change. The Sabbath was officially changed by the Papacy at the Council of Laodicea on March 7, 364 A.D. That was 43 years after Constantine declared Sunday the day for Christians to honor as a rest day.

"Question.-Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?"

"Answer.-Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her,-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."-Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, p. 174.

This quotation emphasizes the fact that since the world accepts Sunday as a day of worship, this acknowledges her supremacy.

"I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to any one who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No; by my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' and lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church. 'Priest Enright, C.S.S.R., Kansas City, Missouri.

There is no question concerning the changing of Sabbath the seventh day to Sunday the first day by the Papacy. You can readily see that there is nothing to be found in the Bible about changing the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday. The Papacy is correct in stating that they changed the day.

"In reply to a letter of October 28, 1895, to Cardinal Gibbons, asking if the church claimed the change of the Sabbath as her mark, the following was received: 'Of course the Catholic church claims that the change was her act .... And the act is a mark of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters.'-C.F. Thomas, Chancellor."

Sunday is the mark of authority of the Roman Catholic Church. It is the "Mark of the Beast." Of this there is absolutely no question, either in the Word of God or in history.

Are Protestant churches aware of these facts? Do they agree that there is no Scriptural authority for Sunday keeping? Let us now turn to the various Protestant churches and hear from them.

Presbyterian: "The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scripture, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath.'Dwight's theology, vol. 4, p. 401.

Congregational: "There is no command in the Bible requiring us to observe the first day of the week as the Christian Sabbath." Fowler, Mode and Subjects of Baptism.

Lutheran: "The observance of the Lord's day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the church."-"Augsburg Confession of Faith," quoted in Cox's Sabbath Manual, p. 287.

Friends, don't you think that when a church admits they are following a teaching not founded on the Word of God, they ought to change and follow God's Word?

Episcopalian: "The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a divine command in this respect, far from them and from the early apostolic church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday."-Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church, p. 186, translated by Henry John Rose, B.D. (Philadelphia: James M. Campbell & Co., 1843).

Here is another church that admits it was not the apostles' intention that the day of worship should ever be changed.

Methodist: "it is true there is no positive command for infant baptism .... Nor is there any for keeping holy the first day of the week."-Rev. Amos Binney, Theological Compend, pp. 180, 181, 1902 ed.

Even our Methodist friends admit that there is nothing in the Bible directing us to keep Sunday holy. Let us turn to our friends the Baptists:

Dr. Edward T. Hiscox, author of The Baptist Manual, before a group of ministers, made this candid admission:

"There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all its duties, privileges, and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament, absolutely not. There is no Scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.

"Of course," he continues, "I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day, as we learn from the Christian fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes branded with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, when adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!"-From a paper read before a New York Ministers' Conference, held Nov. 13, 1893.

Here is one of the leaders of a great Protestant denomination clearly admitting that Sunday keeping is branded with the Mark of paganism.

Please go to my website http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org

...and on the homepage click on the link "Who or what is the ANTICHRIST?" and also scroll down and click on the National Sunday Law graphic to download a short free book to read about the Mark of the Beast and the Sabbath. I challenge all of you to read these two documents.

THEN go to my website:
http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org/romes-challenge.htm
and read "Rome's Challenge" to Protestants.... you will be amazed at how the Roman Catholic Church ridicules Protestants for bowing down the the Catholic Church by keeping the Sunday Sabbath.

 

Just to add to my first comment about the moral law and the ceremonial law...

Christians need to realize there were two different laws, the moral law (ten commandments) and the ceremonial law, or Moses' Law, which had to do with sacrifices and rituals and sabbaths that pointed forward to the sacrifice of Jesus and ended at the cross. This ceremonial law was temporary.

Moses law was called "the law of Moses" Luke 2:22 but God's Law was called "The Law of the Lord" Isaiah 5:24.

Moses' law was contained in ordinances... Ephesians 2:15. But God's Law was called the Royal Law James 2:8.

Moses' Law was written in a BOOK 2 Chronicles 35:12. But God's Law was written by the finger of God on stone Exodus 31:18;32:16.

Moses' law was placed IN THE SIDE OF the Ark Deuteronomy 31:26 symbolizing that it was temporary, but God's Law was placed INSIDE OF the Ark symbolizing it was permanent Exodus 40:20.

Moses' law ended at the cross Ephesians 2:15 but God's Law stands forever Luke 16:17.

The misunderstanding of these two laws is what causes the confusion about the Ten Commandment Law.

As I said before, Romans chapter 14 is referring to the CEREMONIAL LAW... Collosians 2:14-17 also refers to the ceremonial law SABBATHS (plural) which were done away at the cross. These sabbaths were a "shadow of things to come" and does not refer to the Seventh Day Sabbath of the Moral Law (10 Commandments).

There were 7 yearly "holy days" or holidays, in ancient Israel which were also called sabbaths. These were in addition to, or "beside the sabbaths of the Lord" Leviticus 23:38, or the Seventh Day Sabbath.

These sabbaths all foreshadowed, or pointed to the cross and ended at the cross. God's Sabbath was made before sin ever even entered the earth, at creation, and therefore could foreshadow nothing about deliverance from sin.

Genesis 2:
1: Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2: And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3: And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

 

Really Seth3, you are quibling! Christ is our Judge though, therefore what a comfort!
But for Bob and you, this question:
Why the Sabbath cannot be the Lord's Day?
Here's a challenge for every one. The Sabbath is the Lord's Day by feat of resurrection from the dead "IN SABBATH'S-time the day in full splendour towards the First Day of the week", Mt.28:1 as literal as it could and as true to essence as is possible!
If not Jesus rose from the grave on the Sabbath, the Sabbath (Seventh Day) cannot be the Lord's Day. Sunday could NEVER be the Lord's Day because of it, God never "Thus spoke" as "God spake concerning the Seventh Day" -Hb.4:4-5. In this eschatological WORD of God - Jesus Christ and He in resurrection from the dead - the creation of God had been finished (since the beginning). That is ALL, and nothing else, that gave the 'creation-Sabbath', meaning - its Christian meaning.
Gerhard Ebersoehn

 

Before I answer, I would exclude the following: "This is seen in the Seventh Day itself when you see, "A MIST WENT UP" and watered the surface of the ground.

God is showing this then showing His pouring out His Spirit on all flesh (WATERING THE WHOLE SUFACE OF THE GROUND) This is the RAIN (BLESSING) of God." which I think is shear nonsense (allagory) not worth comment.

Now Seth3, I appreciate what you write here, but you should follow through your own thinking : Where, ultimately, is the End or Fulfilment of all the works of God? Not in the death of Christ, but in the resurrection of Him from the dead. This is absolutely clear from the language of Eph.1:19f. If this is so - and it is so - then your arguments here quoted should apply to Christ in His resurrection from the dead, and that happened, precisely "In the Sabbath's fulness being the very light (of day) towards the First Day of the week" - Mt.28:1
Gerhard Ebersoehn

 

Gerhard,

Maybe this will help:

go here: http://www.present-truth.org/br/brcontents.htm

scroll down to:

Section 8 - THE LAW OF GOD

73. The Two Laws
74. The End of the Law