Question About Divorce

Little Sadie's Mom --

Welcome to the BB!!

I would immediately make a suggestion. I would
write a request to the moderators to move your
thread to a Baptist-Only area of Baptist Board.
You are a Baptist looking for answers that go
along with your personal beliefs and those
Baptist beliefs you aspire to. Here, you will get
all kinds of answers.

I would also suggest that you take this to your own
church, to your own pastor or someone you trust
there. This is a very serious matter. You are in my
prayers, Catherine.

You could write this request by clicking the
report-post icon at the bottom of your post and
explain to them your needs. They will likely
understand and move your thread.

 

Okay, Catherine. I understand.

I have neither the wisdom nor the knowledge to
advise you, so I hope that someone who does will
do so. In the meantime, I still continue to pray. My
heart just goes out to you. I wish I could just give
you a big hug, at least.

May our God bless and guide you into His wisdom.

 

You can contest the divorce. If this happens, a judge will decide if the situation warrants one (divorces in this case are almost always granted, however.

The denominational differences aren't really an issue in this situation.

If he divorces you and there is no abandonment or infidelity, then he cannot reasonably expect this, nor anything of you, even though remaining single is biblically what he should do.

If you desire to be married, Paul has sound advice on the subject: He says it's good to remain single, but, if your heart burns with desire, then it would be better to marry.

The way I read it, it would be adultery on his part, but since you're the innocent party and you did not put anyone away, it would not be adultery on your part. However, the sin would be on him as though he were forcing you to commit adultery. That would not, however, mean that, if you remarried, you would be committing adultery (since you were abandoned, and abandonment breaks the marital covenant).

Not until the scars of abandonment that your husband put upon you have healed. Give it at least a year or so. Caveat: reentering the dating scene can prove difficult at first. The first few dates are likely to be failures. Don't let those leave a sour taste about dating or men in general.

You should stay single until you've reached a pooint where you feel the emotional need to enter into a sexual relationship.

I know what you mean. I felt exactly the same way when my wife left me. I came up with this prayer, and I hope it works for you: "Lord, give me just enough strength to get through today". I prayed that every day for a year and a half, and it worked. I entered counselling on a weekly basis with a Christian counsellor. After that, I was able to get to a normal routine. I joined a health club, began making my own major purchases (a car and a house), and slowly began dating again. Three years after my divorce, and with a lot of dating flubs and failures, I eventually met a wonderful Godly woman, and we've been dating ever since, first as friends, then as a couple. We've been dating exclusively for nearly six months. I do plan on marrying again someday. I'm not sure when, but I'm sure the Lord will let me know when the time it right.

I hope that helps, and I wish you all of God's blessings, favor, healing, and love.

 

Catherine, May I suggest you lovingly talk to your husband, explain your desire to remain married to him, express your continued love for him and ask if he would please consider a separation where you could 'date' and work on your relationship.

It sounds to me as if your husband might be going through what used to be called the 'Seven Year Itch' where a man and now woman might look at where they THOUGHT they'd be, what they THOUGHT a marriage would be and begin to question forever. Something like this happens to many couples at 15 years and when a man or woman approaches 40 years old. You can get through this and come out even stronger and more in love if you can only get hubby to allow you to try.

Meanwhile.... I'll pray for you and your husband and also for Sadie. You didn't say how old she is but this must affect her horribly.

Diane Tavegia

[ November 29, 2003, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: dianetavegia ]

 

Denominational issues matter very much in this situation.

I see you said you have been attending a Church of Christ for the past 6 years. Have you been baptized into that church? I was raised Church of Christ (20 plus years of indoctrination) and there are just a few things I want to weigh in on. I want to say right off, if you don't believe these things, you need to find another church right away, because [if this church is mainstream CoC and it sounds like it definitely is from his comments] the church you are attending believes them very strongly.

First of all, the CoC believes that there is only one allowable reason for divorce. That reason is adultery. Not abuse, unhappiness, abandonment or anything else. This is the verse they use, as well as a few others.

You can GET divorced, but in the eyes of the church you are still very much married. The piece of paper means nothing to them since they believe that it is adultery and adultery alone that breaks the vows. The whole thing about getting divorced and remaining single for the rest of your lives and it being ok rests on the presumption that in the eyes of God, the two of you are still married and man can’t break your union. In essence, they believe that when two people get married they remain married in the eyes of God until one partner 1.) dies 2.) commits adultery. Now, the hitch in this is that separation is ok and you can remain in the church with little issues, unless you decide to get married to someone else. This is the point that the serious problems will arise. In their eyes, you are still married to your ex-husband despite the divorce. If you attempt to remarry they will call you an adulteress and disfellowship you.

Also, a common thing in this situation, is to wait the other spouse out. By this I mean you both are young; your husband doesn't want to be single his entire life any more than you do. So, it goes like this. A divorce takes place and the spouses take a 'wait and see' approach to see who can out last the other. The first one to 'fall' and get married sets the other one free when they consummate their new marriage. I suspect your husband is betting on that one being you and then he won't have to be single his entire life. You can surely see where this leaves you in the eyes of the Church of Christ. Your best bet is to get out now.

 

Good answer Dr. Bob, I ahd wondered what would be the biblical thing to do in this case. I have a friend whose husband has told her he no longer loves her. She fears he will divorce her. As you said he is commanded to love her, she should take it to the pastor, next time it comes up I'll tell her that.

 

Catherine:

You quoted your husband as saying to the effect that "he feels that if we get a divorce however both remain single for the rest of our lives that it doest matter."

We'll just see now how long that will last on his part, won't we? (And tell him unwedded shacking up counts as well). YOU are the innocent party here. As wrong as divorce is, clearly you should not have him or the rest of the religious world dump a load of guilt on you (why do they always make the woman feel as if she had something to do with this?). Tell ya what. Just hang in there, the Lord will guide you as you said, and don't think about men for awhile--- see what he eventually does if he is unwilling to reconcile. If he gets someone else, don't they have those TV shows out now where they photograph guys cheating for the rest of the world to see? That may shame him back to his senses.

 

Catherine:

Your statements are in italics, I answered some of them.

I've been more or less told to find another church.

Count your blessings. It's not everyday the Lord directs us away from a false-teaching church.

I'm afraid i'll find a church that is just not right for me.

Then start looking for one that is right for the Lord. It will then be right for you, I promise.

My husband said he wanted the dog out of the house this weekend.

Problem solved. Pay the lawyer, you get the house and you can give him the dog AND the DOGHOUSE. Sounds to me like he's the type that would suit quite well and that would be his caliber of company. In all seriousness, isn't there anybody at the church you now go to (in spite of what you were told) who would take the dog for a short time? Also, if he was willing to let you have the house, I'm not sure why he'd want the dog out to begin with?

Feel free to contact me personally if things are getting too personal on these forums (unless you feel others may have additional input). Other than prayer, I wish I could help out, but that seems out of my reach considering the great distance I live from you. I know our congregation would help you out in such a time of need and I hope you find it in someone's heart to help you in as similar manner, just 'til you get back on your feet.

 

I wish there was someone who would help me w/ the dog but no one in the church is even talking to me. They all have my cell number and those who dont could get it by asking the pastor but no one will talk to me :-( So I just went ahead and drove six and a half hour's to my friends house in texas and her boyfriend is going to watch her for a few months. He has three daughters and is willing to help me out. I sure am thankful for him. God does answer prayers I'm having a hard time being around the towm my husband and I live in because I keep seeing everything that "we" used to do together but it's getting better. I need to establish "Me" things I guess.

I'm going to start going back to church next week. I've stayed away because of the mean hateful things that my soon to be ex has told the rest of our congregation. If they want to think those horrible things of me fine...I know and God knows that i've done nothing wrong. It's just hard to know that some people think bad of you even though I know it's not true...Oh well.

Thanks everyoen for their reply's I appriciate them all very very much,

Catherine </font>[/QUOTE]Why do you want to keep going to a Church where the pastors are acting like this and the congregation is following suit?

Springfield has alot of Churches/denominations....just open the phonebook up and you can find a new Church!


LaRae

 

Sounds like your "husband" does not attend the Church of Christ but the Church of Satan. For them to even tolerate this kind of behavior on his part. But the best thing to do is to get a good lawyer and seek the lawyer's advice regarding your finances. Another thing I would do is to not act according to what he wants but according to what is right.

God hates divorce. So any man that wants to divorce his wife is carryimng out what God hates. Any pastor that would go along with that, should be removed from his pulpit and quit his false teaching immediately.

The first thing I would do is to get a lawyer. Your husband may be able to spend a lot of money and you might be held partially responsible.

 

Hi Catherine,

The teaching of the whole of Christendom until the middle of the 16th century on this subject was one (it still remains one, but you'll now find heretical suggestions that have since been introduced) because Scripture gives one.

When you are married, you enter into a covenant with your spouse. Thereafter, you have become one flesh and that flesh cannot be separated by any man.

The 2 Gospels of Mark and Luke are clear on this matter:

"Every one who divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery, and he who marries a woman divorced from her husband commits adultery" (Luke 16:18).

"Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery" (Mark 10:11-12).

In Matthew's Gospel, you will find what is generally referred to as the porneia exception clause, which is inserted into this exhortation:

"And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for unchastity [porneia], and marries another, commits adultery" (Matt 19:9).

All throughout the history of Christianity until the novel interpretations of the Reformers, the porneia exception clause did not allow for divorce and remarriage. Rather, there were different explanations. For example:

1. Due to Matthew's distinctively "Jewish" audience, Jesus is dismissing the relevance of the debate between two Jewish schools (Hillel & Shammai) as to legitimate reasons for divorce. This is Jesus responding to the "for any cause whatever" of the Pharisees in verse 3, which was a question of debate between these two schools. Rabbi Hillel's following was less strict than that of Rabbi Shammai's following.

2. Civil divorce is permissible if one spouse in the marriage engages in harlotry, but remarriage is not an option because the couple remains married in God's eyes (one flesh cannot be rent assunder).

3. If the couple is in an incestuous relationship, then the marriage is not valid, therefore divorce and remarriage are both permitted because the marriage was never a marriage to begin with (Cf. Lv 18:6-18).

4. Matthew is cognizant of the fact that he has already declared Joseph as a "just man" (1:19) who was going to quietly divorce Mary because she had committed adultery (as the only rational explanation available to Joseph before the angelic revelation that he was to later receive), and so for this reason he espouses Reason #2 above.

The problem with the theology of various Protestants on this board is that they (1) ignore the universal interpretation and application of the Scriptures throughout the course of the life of the Church, (2) try to find loopholes in the Scripture to support divorce/remarriage, and (3) thereby ignore the theology of marriage proposed by Jesus, thus seeing Jesus' command as arbitrary.

Let me explain. Jesus says that a married couple are "no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore, what God has joined together, no human being must separate" (Matt 19:5-6). That's Jesus' theology on marriage.

If we take Mark's account, for example, we read:

"Whoever divorces his wife and marries another, commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery" (Mark 10:11-12).

The loophole-seeking Protestant will say, "Aha - you see, Jesus is saying that if the initiator of the divorce remarries, then only the initiator is guilty. Our Lord's silence constitutes an affirmation that the innocent party is free to remarry."

The looming difficulty with this interpretation is that it ignores Jesus' theology of marriage and renders his command as arbitrary. The reason why adultery would be committed is because the original couple is still married in God's eyes. That's what adultery is. It's when a couple engages in the conjugal act and one partner in the act is married to a third party.

How could the initating party, if re-married, be committing adultery whereas the innocent party would not be committing adultery if re-married? That presents arbitrariness for Jesus' command that ignores the nature of adultery (which ipso facto demands that the original couple is still married) and Jesus' command of the "one flesh" that cannot be separated.

Jesus' teaching is difficult, and his words are the reality of the situation irregardless of our emotions, desires, concupiscence, and abhorrence of our fallen mind to this pristine and infallible teaching of the Saviour.

The disciples said to him, "If such is the case of a man with his wife, it is not expedient to marry" (Matthew 19:10).

 

mommietosadie,

If the sin of adultery cannot be forgiven of the one who would otherwise seek sexual relationships "on the side" or "in private", or even by rejection of one's faith, as many priests have done, then a whole bunch of us are goin' to hell!

HOWEVER, Scripture says there is but one unforgivable sin and that is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit!

Yes, It is God's plan that marriage should be a lifetime commitment between one man and one woman. And, Yes, it is a sin to have sexual relationships outside the bond of marriage. So what is a person who is young and in the prime of one's life, who finds them self in the situation described to do?

Marry again if that is what you need to do! You and your husband Confess the sin of adultery, receive the forgiveness, repent from sinning, hold true to each other once you are married, it is then no longer a sin. Then Go on and live a happy productive life doing service to your Savior, Jesus Christ!

Once your sin if forgiven, it is forgotten! There is no longer any guilt hanging over you.

BESIDES, and this is very important, Jesus' death on the cross took the sins of the whole world to the grave. Being the sinless one, Jesus then arose to give us life eternal. ACCEPT that life eternal and live in peace content in knowing that your sins are forgiven and never to be held against you again!

HOWEVER, that does not give you license to sin "all the more". So live as holy a life as you possibly can knowing that the one who promised you salvation (eternal life) if you just believe in HIM, is not going to condemn you any more than He condemned the woman caught in the act of adultery by those "Holier than thou's" who were deliberately attempting to entrap Jesus. You saw what happened to them didn't you? They all cowered away, unable to remain the accusers! (that is what some giving advice are doing to you, they are ready to stone you for sinning.) Satan was and is among them, and every time he accuses you, and you are in the presence of Jesus, which you are while you are "in faith", satan backs down because he knows he's defeated in the face of Truth.

So, my advice to you is marry right, and live long, properly in Jesus! He will bless you.

Here is really sound advice:
From the book Intimate Behavior by Desmond Morris (Random House, 1971) as presented on Focus on the Family broadcast, (Dr. James Dobson's excellent radio ministry, by a guest, Dr Donald Joy, professor of Human development at Asbury Theological Seminary, Wilmore, Kentucky.

The 12 steps of intimacy are described below:

1. EYE TO BODY
A glance reveals much about a person--sex, size, shape, age, personality and status. The importance people place on these criteria determines whether or not they will be attracted to each other.

2. EYE TO EYE
When the man and woman exchange glances their most natural reaction is to look away, usually with embarrassment. If their eyes meet again, they may smile, which signals that they might like to become better acquainted.

3. VOICE TO VOICE

Their initial conversations are trivial, and include questions like "What is your name?" or "What do you do for a living?" During this long stage the two people learn much about each other's opinions, pastimes, activities, habits, hobbies, likes and dislikes. If they're compatible, they become friends.

4. HAND TO HAND

The first instance of physical contact between the couple is usually on non-romantic occasions such as when the man helps the woman descend a high step or aids her across an obstacle. At this point either of the individuals can withdraw from the relationship without rejecting the other. However, if continued, hand to hand contact will eventually become an evidence of the couple's romantic attachment to each other.

5. HAND TO SHOULDER

This affectionate embrace is still noncommittal. It is a "buddy" type position in which the man and woman are side-by-side. They are more concerned with the world in front of them than they are with each other. The hand to shoulder contact reveals a relationship that is more than a close friendship, but probably not real love.

6. HAND TO WAIST
Because this is something two normal people of the same sex would not do, it is clearly romantic. They are close enough to be sharing secrets or intimate language with each other. Yet, as they walk side-by-side with hand to waist they are still facing forward.

7. FACE TO FACE
This level of contact involves gazing into one another's eyes, hugging and kissing. If none of the previous steps were skipped, the man and woman will have developed a special code from experience that enables them to engage in deep communication with very few words. At this point sexual desire becomes an important factor in the relationship.

8. HAND TO HEAD
This is an extension of the previous stage. The man and woman tend to cradle or stroke each other's head while kissing or talking.

9. - 12. THE FINAL STEPS
The last four levels of involvement are distinctly sexual and private. They are:
9.) HAND TO BODY,
10.) MOUTH TO BREAST,
11.) TOUCHING BELOW THE WAIST and
12.) INTERCOURSE.

Obviously, the last three steps of physical contact should be reserved for the marital relationship, particularly since they are immensely and progressively emotional.
Couples contemplating marriage should make their courtship a long one, Dr. Joy said. They should proceed slowly through the first levels of physical bonding and allow the last steps to take place after the wedding. It is a mistake to rush the relationship or skip steps and become intimate quickly, he warned. Impatience can damage intimacy and reduce the possibility of a solid, enduring union.

 

Praying for you, Catherine. May God guide and protect you.