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Armi-Calvinist?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by MRCoon, May 7, 2006.

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  1. MRCoon

    MRCoon New Member

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    Can you be both? I'm working the night shift and nothing going on...so I used google and wikipedia to look up Arminianism, Calvinism, Reformed Baptist, Neo-Orthodoxy, Pelagianism, The New Prespective of Paul, and other such things that I've seen 'argued' on this board. I usually stay out of these theological discussions for lack of interest and for fear/hatred of these limiting tags. That being said can someone be a combination of this schools of thought? I've always operated under the guise of "Know What You Believe and Believe What You Know" but it is funny that I find I can agree with elements from each area. So what are your thoughts?
     
    #1 MRCoon, May 7, 2006
  2. Rev. Lowery

    Rev. Lowery New Member

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    The Bible supports both sides but only to a certain point at which beyond that point we apply our own interpretations.

    2 peter 1:20

    20Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
     
    #2 Rev. Lowery, May 7, 2006
  3. Rev. Lowery

    Rev. Lowery New Member

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    ohhh to answer your question yes you can be armi-calvinist
     
    #3 Rev. Lowery, May 7, 2006
  4. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    Well, I reject the first four points of Calvinism, but I believe in the eternal security of the saints. I suppose that would be Armi-Calvinist.
     
    #4 JackRUS, May 7, 2006
  5. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Mr. Coon an Armi-Cal is nothing more than the typical Baptists. Didn't use to be that way. 150 years ago the typical Baptist was Calvinist. Aah, the fruits of Finneyism.
     
    #5 Tom Butler, May 7, 2006
  6. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    Finneyism = easy-believism. Thats is not what I believe.

    And I reject Total Depravity because of Scripture.

    "He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
    And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
    And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness." Rom. 4:20-22

    Abraham believed first; was able to be 'fully persuaded' and 'perform' his faith, and then ('therefore') he got righteousness imputed to him. (i.e., saved)

    Understanding then faith and then salvation (see also Rom. 10:14-17)

    I reject Unconditional Election because of all of the OT and NT (too many verses to site. )John 3:16; Lev. 1:4; Num. 15:3, being a few that come to mind)

    I reject Limited Atonement because of 1 John 2:2.

    I reject Irresistible Grace because of Acts 7:51.
     
    #6 JackRUS, May 7, 2006
  7. MRCoon

    MRCoon New Member

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    So Jack what are you saying are you Armi-Cal or Armi or Cal...or something else?
     
    #7 MRCoon, May 7, 2006
  8. saturneptune

    saturneptune New Member

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    How about being called a Christian and believing what the Bible says?
     
    #8 saturneptune, May 7, 2006
  9. Rhetorician

    Rhetorician Administrator
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    saturneptune;

    That sounds great. But, from my 30 years of study of the issues it cannot be done. We in the Western (think Greek) tradition want to systematize and categorize nearly everything. We want to break it down into its component parts and then reassemble it after we see how it works.

    This can be seen with the doctrine of election. All, Calvinists and Arminians (even the Roman Catholics), would grant that the Bible teaches some sort of election. It is when we seek to understand the issues surrounding the doctrine from the Bible that we try to categorize it and systematize it. Then, that brings in the great minds and thinkers like Calvin, Luther, Arminius, Aquinas, Augustine, Anselm, etc. et al ad infinitum, ad nauseum.

    Most of us are not seminal thinkers so must draw on them. So, we end up alligning with a system that has been developed before that fits our personality and tradition. It takes a big man to step outside of that to look for the truth either Calvinistically or Arminially.

    sdg!

    rd
     
    #9 Rhetorician, May 7, 2006
  10. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    I guess that I'm Armi-Cal. (Or something else [​IMG] ) like a emmmmmm...Christian.

    Ya, that's it. I'm a Christian! [​IMG]
     
    #10 JackRUS, May 8, 2006
  11. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    JackRUS, if I read you right you are a one-point Calvinist (you hold to preservation/perserverance of the saints) Or you are a four-point Arminian. Like I said you're a typical modern Baptist.
     
    #11 Tom Butler, May 8, 2006
  12. Marcia

    Marcia Active Member

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    But I've heard that with the perseverance of the saints, a true Calvinist cannot know he is saved because if he is not persevering, he may not be saved. I don't think perseverance of the saints from the Calvinist pov is the same as OSAS.
     
    #12 Marcia, May 8, 2006
  13. MRCoon

    MRCoon New Member

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    I've accepted the fact that I'm an Armi-Cal or rather a Cal-Minian (I like that sound better :D ). Of couse I also hold the fact that this/these tags have little bearing on my life. [​IMG] I know what I Believe and Believe what I know all the rest is 'fluff' and should in no way take away Bile Study, Prayer, Witnessing or any other aspect of service for Christ. [​IMG]


    'Fluff' = preference, speculation, and/or personal conviction. None of which is to interfere with winning souls.
     
    #13 MRCoon, May 8, 2006
  14. Rev. Lowery

    Rev. Lowery New Member

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    I know that if I believe in Jesus I go to Heaven as does anyone esle who believes the same that is an ABSOLUTE FACT!
     
    #14 Rev. Lowery, May 8, 2006
  15. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    Where did you hear that? "P" really means that God will work in those whom He has saved so that they will persevere in faith to the end. There is no uncertainty.
     
    #15 whatever, May 8, 2006
  16. Pipedude

    Pipedude Active Member

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    MRCoon, most preachers are a little of each. They call it "balance." I call it "confused." But the sad fact is, the clearest and most consistent theological thinkers I know are pretty ineffective in ministry.

    The point is, clearing up this question isn't going to help you much.

    But if the question gnaws on you and won't turn you loose, maybe you'll just have to sit in front of the computer for the rest of your life and go 'round and 'round like a dog chasing its tail.

    Know anybody like that?
     
    #16 Pipedude, May 8, 2006
  17. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Like CH Spurgeon, right? Oh, wait...
     
    #17 npetreley, May 8, 2006
  18. johnp.

    johnp. New Member

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    Would you care to explain 1 Sam 3:14 please JackRus?

    Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' "

    john.
     
    #18 johnp., May 8, 2006
  19. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill New Member

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    Most Baptist are of the Calminian strain.They don't make a lot of noise on the boards.Those who are solidly arminian are generally also wesleyan which usually takes them toward the Methodist,Nazarene,and Pentecostal churches.

    I think being Calminian is just fine. I think it is Biblical.That being said any calvinist will tell you if you don't agree with them fully and completely for the reasons they tell you then you must be an arminian.You don't have to go along with that, nobody died and made them the jello sheriffs of theology even though they seem to think somebody did.
     
    #19 Plain Old Bill, May 8, 2006
  20. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Would you care to explain 1 Sam 3:14 please JackRus?

    Therefore, I swore to the house of Eli, `The guilt of Eli's house will never be atoned for by sacrifice or offering.' "

    john.     </font>[/QUOTE]This has been explained to you repeatedly. You are only looking for someone who uses this text to support your hyper postion.
     
    #20 webdog, May 8, 2006
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