The Biblical Doctrine of Condign Merit

What questions are unanswered?

 

My original questions:

All of the questions were 'answered' with a question except for the last one, to which you replied:

To which I replied:

DEFINITION OF WORK IS FROM BIBLE QUESTION

INTENTION QUESTION

 

jason, this realyy shouldn't be that tough for you.

Acts of love and charity.

You don't need to do a lot of interpretting of Scripture to know what these things are. God put it on our hearts when we were created. Little children naturally know when they are loving someone or hurting them. It is only as we harden our hearts through sin that we blind ourselves to knowing or caring about it.

There are examples in Scripture, feed the hungry, care for the sick... etc.

No greater love than to lay down your life for another.

Like I said, it's not that hard to sort out.

As to intention, yes, intention matters.

If you accidentally do unforeseeable harm when you are trying to do good, it is judged differently than if you do harm without caring or on purpose.

Now, perhaps you could tell me what your as yet unspecified point to all this is.

 

Sorry. Just found the thread again....here we go, again.

It isn't. I am just being difficult as you seem to not understand what you say.

And these are? What defines love and charity? To what degree must something be of love and charity to qualify?

Uh huh. So, what you are saying is that we now follow our heart?

Again, so does it have to be driven by the holy spirit and does intent truley matter (what you just said points to intent not mattering)?

So, if I care for my wife, that is a good work? Is it 'enough' to save me? What is enough?

Really? The more you talk, the more questions I have and the less obvious this becomes. A works based salvation system (anything that includes work in salvation) is inherently flawed for just the reasons I have asked you above: how much is enough? to what degree? does intent matter?

So if I actually do good, but I wanted to do it for tax purposes (giving all my money to charity, the church), that isn't a good work? Or it isn't as "good" a work as a real good work (what is a real good work?).

What if I take care of the sick because I like taking care of the sick, not because I feel it is the right thing to do? Some people actually like being doctors (my wife for one). That isn't as good a work as someone who hates taking care of the sick but does it anyway?

The same thing the point always is; to show you how the idea of a works based salvation is void of any true validity.

Ancillary points are to get you thinking about something you obviously accept at face value. With the achievement of thought, I can get you to recognize the absolute idiocy of a works based system (thereby achieving #1 as well).

jason

 

So that is the basis for your confusion.

As a Catholic, I don't believe in a works based system.

 

Yes you do. As a catholic you view works as necassary to the salvation process. This is what I am calling a works based system (anything that includes works in salvation).

Maybe I shouldn't call it that, but I did and I explained what I meant.

jason

 

Jason, based on your definition, I would hazard to say that you then also believe in a works based system of salvation.

Tell me, is repentance necessary for salvation?

If yes, then you believe in a system of faith and repentance. In other words, faith plus the work of repentance.

 

1. you are sidestepping the issues and questions, again.

2. who defines repentance as a work...getting back to the questions that I already asked!

 

I'm sorry, I missed the question. Could you restate it?

[/QUOTE]2. who defines repentance as a work...getting back to the questions that I already asked! [/QUOTE]
I dunno. It's usually the non-Catholic party that is concerned about works.

Lets look at it this way to avoid that problem:

Will you agree that repentance is not the same as faith?

If you will conceed to that, and also agree that repentance is necessary to being saved, then being saved is a matter of faith and repentance.

In other words, not faith alone.

 

I don't want to do this. You are ignoring all the interesting questions that would challenge you. Instead you are trying to turn it around. Bad T2U! Bad!

And, did I ever say, faith alone? I think this thing called the bible says grace alone, through faith. Part of God's grace is the ability for us mortals to repent from our sins. And....enough of a sidetrack....answer the questions (at this point there might well be about a 100 unaswered questions).

jason

 

Actually, I keep asking you for the question.

I can't answer it until you ask it.

So we are saved by grace? Great, I agree that without God's grace, no one can enter Heaven.

But what about faith and repentance?

Can you be saved without them?

 

Seriously, I'm done. This is getting annoying (no smiley faced need right now). I kept posting the questions, kept reasking the same general questions and you avoided them. So, until you can take the topic seriously, I think we should just set it aside.

If or when you have thought about it enough and feel comfortable actually discussing the topic, we can start over.

Until then....

jason

PS. Go UConn

 

Gee... I would think that asking you to state your questions several times would have given you the impression that I am attempting to discuss this with you.

I'm sorry, but this is a somewhat lengthy thread, and I'm just not sure of exactly what question it is that you keep referring too.

When you are up to it, how about asking your question and I will try to answer it for you.

OK?

 

Yes, within the bounds of a covenant relationship.

 

Only if your a Catholic.
One is saved if they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, covenants notwithstanding. Not everyone believes in covenantal theology--I am one of them. By your definition it would be impossible for me to be saved because I am outside of your imaginary unbiblical covenant.
DHK

 

Peace be with you DHK.

Luke 22:20 (ESV)
And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood."

 

"Covenant" is a poor translation. The correct word is "testament". Only one party is necessary for a testament. There is no covenant in Holy Communion. Christ freely gives us His body and blood without any merit, work, or worthiness in us.

 

Agreed. Covenant also implies the the promised agreement of two individuals. Salvation is God's work; God's promise; God's favor and merit to us. He did it all for us. It was all by grace to be accepted by faith.
There is no covenant involved.
DHK

 

The covenant here is a new covenant. The old covenant is past away.