Eternal Security...The Wide Gate.

Nevertheless,

No force involved. I simply want someone to explain to me how man can undo what only God can do.

How can a man unsave himself, if it is God that does the saving? How can someone remove the blood of Christ after it has been applied to him?

Explain this.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

jcf,

Ummm...so you save yourself? I don't think so.

I just want someone who believes in conditional salvation to explain how man can undo what only God can do.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Nor is it something that you can walk away from.

And just how do you "allow" God to do anything? God calls and gives the faith needed.

"We are daily being saved from sin." But are saved from eternal death (seperation from God) once.

If you can lose salvation, then "eternal life" is not eternal.

In Christ,
Trotter

 

If we put Jesus' words into practice, it is Jesus' words that save us, not us.

Why are so many people blind to what Jesus said:

If we put Jesus' words into practice, we are walking in the light.

 

Amen Trotter! I would also like to know just how many lies I can tell (by number), or how many times I can break the law by speeding (The Bible says to keep the laws of the land), or any other number of sins. It sounds to me like we are going to have to start putting numbers on sins so we will know how many we can do before we get lost again.

Was it not Paul who made some remark about being lost after being saved would require Jesus to be crucified again, and that AIN'T gonna happen?

I thought the Bible says that if I accept Jesus that I HAVE eternal life--not that I MIGHT have eternal life if I do not tell more than 20 lies or run more than 30 stop signs or how many times can I watch the ball-game and skip church before I get lost again? etc. etc.

 

Concerning the original post:

1. Matt7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The words are straight and narrow, meaning only one way, this dosen't tell you how.

2. Heb6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away , to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Notice it says "if", further on down, same chap.

9 ¶ But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation , though we thus speak.

The jews were used to giving sacrafice once every year, these verses are showing the folly in doing so in reference to Christ.(nobody lost anything)

3. Luke12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Notice the term Son of man earlier in the chap., the context is Israel. All of Israel is God's servants, saved or lost.

Le 25:55 For unto me the children of Israel are servants; they are my servants whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God.

4. 1 ¶ Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

One is a saving faith, the other, an intelectual belief. For ex. "I believe God exists" vs " I'm trusting Jesus' blood shed on calvary to save me"

5. Jas5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
This does not say damnation, there is a sin unto death. He wouldn't refer to him as brother if he wasn't saved.

6. Heb10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

One can recieve the knowledge of how to get saved without recieving Christ as Saviour. The sin would be unbelief.

7. 1Cor9: 27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

The context is testimony, if I don't keep my flesh in check, nobody's gonna' believe my testimony because I'm worldly.

Will finish later, gotta put the children to bed.

 

On the contrary - that is exactly what I say it says.

I show that those who are unhappy with John 14:2 spin it around to say "IF I GO I will come again so that YOU can RECEIVE ME HERE once again and once again we will all be together".

Instead the text directs us AWAY from here - TO a place that is THERE - out there - in the Father's House - the PLACE where Christ went.

You got that right.

And "Jesus goes WHY?" -- to PREPARE a place FOR US.

And Jesus comes BACK why - TO RECEIVE US TO HIMSELF so that THERE (not HERE) we may be also.

"Yes" - not so "WE CAN RECEIVE HIM BACK HERE" but so "HE CAN RECIEVE US" up THERE and "THERE we will be also"

Those who spin this around claim that it is about "BEING HERE AGAIN" not about RECEIVING us to THAT PLACE He is preparing THERE for us that "THERE we may be also".

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Christ RECEIVES US up TO WHERE HE is - He does not come down here - He takes US UP there!

Pretty obvious.

This is not to deny the role of Christ and the saints at the end of the real 1000 years as we see in Rev 21.

In that age - (after the REAL 1000 years) the New Jerusalem "really" comes down out of heaven.

In Christ,

Bob

 

We are debtors...not to the flesh...if you live after the flesh (unsaved?), ye shall die.

BUT...if through the Spirit (saved?)...ye shall live.

As many are led by the Spirit of God (salvation?), they are the sons of God (eternal life).

You may want to look up how adoption worked in Jewish and Roman society in order to get the full picture here. Once someone was adopted into the family, they could not be disowned. A natural son could, but an adopted son could not, because adoption is permenant. Did Paul know this? Hmmm...physical Jew, Roman citizen, highly educated.

No one has answered my question yet. How can man undo what only God can do?

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Marriage does not equal salvation, jcf. Besides, the allegorical approach does nto hold water in the interpretation and application of the scriptures (unless you are a Catholic priest in the Dark Ages).

Jeremiah 3:6-9 We are not Israel. Israel was not saved, nor had salvation came upon the scene. Apples and oranges.

Want to try again?

In Christ,
Trotter

 

Yes, I did. I gave you three examples of man undoing what God has done.

"How can someone remove the blood of Christ after it has been applied to him?"

I answered that one too.

Never

 

jcf,

Ever hear of something called "context"? You are violating it in a major way. While I can see your intentions are good, you are destroying the unity of the scriptures to make a point. Very, very bad practice.

"These things" refers to what Paul had immediately spoken of, not bits and pieces of the gospel of Matthew. It can also be taken to mean the OT (as a whole) is to be used for examples...but not doctrine.

Care to explain what you mean? I am hoping that I am misunderstanding you on this one...

In Christ,
Trotter

 

The fall of man, the fall of Satan, the fall of the angels who followed Satan. Which of these did God not know about beforehand? Which of these caught Him unprepared? None of these "undid" God's work, for He had already planned it.

So, your theology amounts to "God allows some to be saved so He can tease them with the thought of eternal life, because He is going to let them becomed 'unsaved' again." Did I miss anything?

If one can lose their salvation, I move that they were never saved to begin with. And if you believe that once someone is saved that they will never sin again, I want to know how...short of killing them right then and there.

Again I ask, ""How can someone remove the blood of Christ after it has been applied to him? How can a man 'unsave' himself?"

In Christ,
Trotter