Originally posted by Lorelei:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ONENESS:
We dont, but we know what the diffrence is. We know that water is important part of it. Jesus said you have to be born of the water and the spirit.
Yes, to be saved you must be born of the water (the physical birth that Nicodemus mentioned in John 3:4) and born of the Spirit. You don't have to be baptized by both in order to receive salvation. You will follow in water baptism as a symbol of the spiritual baptism, but if you die before you get to the water you need not worry, your sins are washed away by the Blood of Jesus, the water does nothing but show that picture.
Originally posted by ONENESS:
Acts 8.
But when they believed phillip concerning the kingdom of God and the Name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized both men and women, THen Simon himself believed also and when he was baptized he continued with Phillip and wondered beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Notice they believed before they were baptized. The baptism was following the Lord's command, but not necessary for salvation.
Originally posted by ONENESS:
Acts 2
and they that gladly received his word were baptized and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls
Again, they gladly received the word first. I also would like to know why you think it means water baptism when Peter was speaking of the spiritual baptism for the entire chapter. I also ask, where does it say any of the 3,000 spoke in tongues?
Originally posted by ONENESS:
For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they had been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
So baptism in the Name of the Lord Jesus only isn't sufficient for salvation?
Originally posted by ONENESS:
We know this was not the Holy Ghost baptisim b/c the bible says he was fallen upon none of them.
Yeah so they weren't saved because they didnt' have the Holy Spirit. We have been over this chapter several times. You still have never answered the question as to why Philip couldn't baptize them with the Holy Spirit, why did Peter have to be called?
Originally posted by ONENESS:
Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way. they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See here is water what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Phillip said if thou believest with all thine heart thou mayest and he answered and said, I believe that jesus christ is the Son of God, And he commanded the chariot to stand still and they went down both into the water, both Phillip and the Eunuch, and he baptized him, and they were come out of the water
Exactly, he had to believe before he could be baptized for belief is what saves. Without believing first, there is no symbolizism to demonstrate with the water.
Originally posted by ONENESS:
Acts 10. Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And of course this is my favorite. How did they get the Holy Spirit if they had not been baptized with water yet???
Originally posted by ONENESS:
Would you like me to keep going?
Nah, we have had this conversation before, you still won't keep the verses in context and understand the difference between the Holy Spirit baptism of the Jews, Samaritans and Gentiles. Would you like me to relink those thread again???
~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]you are missing the whole picture.
WHere do you get that we think that baptisim is the only thing we teach
Why do you think we dont believe you have to "believe" before you can go any farther.
Jesus said unless you believe that I am He you will die in your sins.
YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE. OF COURSE YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE FIRST, WITH OUT BELIEVING IN JESUS THERE WOULD BE NO REASON TO BE BAPTIZED?
Ok you believe, you say you have the Holy Ghost So be it. Man I am so tired of going around in circles with you guys.
Your not going to change my mind, b/c there are examples all throughout the book of Acts were people were repenting being baptized in the Name of Jesus and receiveing the Holy Ghost.
Who cares anymore, my goodness, acording to what you say I am covered, I believe that Jesus is and blah blah blah, I think I am just going to go back to the way I use to be, drink a 12 pack smoke a joint, get in a fight tell the person that Jesus Loves them and continue believing in God.
Keep having Faith, Keep believing never live holy and I promise you will never make it. How do I know?
Hebrews 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord
Oh i know
"WORKS, WORKS, WOKRKS"
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Oneness and MEE, if you Have to do anything for salvation it is of works. We are saved thru grace by faith in Jesus Christ. FAITH. After you are saved is when the good works come in. And you don't do works to get closer to God. If you are actually saved, born again, you will naturally want to do good works. You can't help yourself because you have Christ living in you and it will show. And I just don't understand why people who have asked the Lord to forgive them and have accepted Jesus still seek the Holy Ghost. You get the HG the moment you are saved.
Let me ask you this, if a person is seeking the HG and dies or never "gets it", will they go to hell?
This is ridiculus. If a person has the faith that they ared saved, they will go to heaven. They don't have to wait for days, weeks, or years to know for sure.
Faith pleases God.
Susan
Susan keep on beleiving in GOd and never do anything to get closer to him. YOu have to pray to get to heaven. Its a work,
YOu have to repent to get to heaven, its a work
you have to walk down to the alter or you have to make an alter for your self, that is a work.
You have to read your bible to make it to heaven. That is a work.
We are saved by grace. It is grace that God loved us enough to come die for our sins, it is grace that led him to the cross.
It is faith that excepts that and obidence that makes us act. upon what we have faith in.
If a person is seeking for the HOly Ghost, God will not take them out of this world until he is finished with them. He promised it to us, and if you are seeking for the Holy Ghost and you dont hold god faithful to his promise then you Make him a liar. He said it was a promise AND GOD DONT LIE.
Yea there are certain things that we are told not to go, things we are told not to do, so on and so forth. Dont pity me, dont feel sorry for me, by all means. I feel sorry for you and I pity you b/c you dont have a man of God in yourlives who will pray and fast for your souls and you dont have someone that loves you enough to tell you that you dont need to do this and you dont need to do that.
I bet all the churches in the bible damned the Apostles and put them in hell when they told them
1 Corinthians 6:9 ¶ Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
WORKS WORKS WORKS
Galatians 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit
the kingdom of God.
WORKS WORKS WORKS
Eph 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God
WORKS, WORKS, WORKS
Gal:5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
WORKS WORKS WORKS
Hebres 2:14 ¶ What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
3:1 ¶ My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
2 For in many things we offend all. If any man offend not in word, the same is a perfect man, and able also to bridle the whole body.
3 Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4 Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5 Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6 And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.
13 ¶ Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.
16 For where envying and strife is, there is confusion and every evil work.
17 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.
18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
LOOK ALL JAMES WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IS WORKS WORKS WORKS, UHHHH WHO IS HE?
Should I post the entire bible. Maybe you guys should just burn your bibles b/c you belive.
God bless all
[ May 17, 2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: ONENESS ]
