Something I noticed about pentacostals

The NIV Reads "And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit". You will or shall receive it. Any future tense implied would be because they had not repented and believed. Don't read too much into one word to make your point.

The only reason they waited in Acts 8 is because it was the first time the Holy Spirit was dispensed upon the Samaritans. If it is as you say, why couldn't Philip do it? Why did they have to wait for Peter? (You never ever answer that)

So what in the world did God leave us His Word for? We would all have the Holy Spirit enter us and make us break the commands the Holy Spirit told someone else to write anyway? Why do you keep that book around if all you are going to do is dance around and laugh in it's face???

Who are you to tell me I don't want it!?!? I don't desire the experience because I do have it! Who are you to tell me that I don't? I have to believe your experience, but you refuse to believe mine, based on what? Implied verses taken out of context. We are judging you by scriptures that tell us that you are not practicing the gift how it was intended. You are saying that because I don't have a gift that not everyone has that I don't have the Holy Spirit. THE BIBLE NEVER SAYS THAT!. Your pastor may say it, but it doesn't wash with the word of God.

If the Bereans took the time to question Paul and make sure what he was teaching was the truth, shouldn't you do the same? The Bereans were called Noble. Paul said get off the milk of the Word and get into the Meat. He didn't say let your pastor dig into the meat and keep feeding you like babes.

If you say that Jesus is now the name of God, then why did Paul keep referring to the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit at different times. Didn't he realize they were all the name of Jesus now?

Why didn't he just say Jesus????

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]

Luke 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

And the KJV reads "And you shall receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit

I dont know why phillip did not do it. But according to what you say here I could say It was the first time the HOly Ghost was dispensed upon me. That is why I did not receive that holy Ghost the first time I believed in God when I was 5 years old. The point of the matter is if they believed they should have had the HOly Ghost that moment. My point is proven with this text. Its not something that happens everytime as soon as you say I believe. Sometimes we have to wait on things.

To read. And No he would not enter us and tell us to break the commands of what he told someone else to write. I dont dance around and laugh in its face. Lorelie, all I am saying is that we have a diffrent understanding. Look I am not saying you are wrong. I am just saying that I dont agree with you on somethings.

I guess you took that the wrong way, sounds like it made you a little upset. Loreleie, I know you want everything God has for you. But what it seems to me you are doing is takeing "your" understanding and putting a period on the end of it and not leaving any room for something else. Look I envy you. I think you are one of the smartest people on this board. I wish I was as smart as you. I wish I could meet you and you husband and sit down and do lunch and become friends.

The reason I asked you what I did yesterday was not so I could argue with you and get you to see how I believe, i just thought it would be a good way for you to understand what kind of person I am. I am not the type of person that is going to look down on anyone b/c they dont belive the way I do. I am human just like anyone else. And just b/c I speak in tongues does not make me anybetter than anyone on this board. I know thats the impression that alot of you have. But I am pretty normal for the most part. LOL. I like to cut up and have a good time. I am probably more sarcastic than I am serious half the time. I just wish you guys would not for an opinion on someone just b/c of their beliefs.

And just a small request do you guys mind praying for me and my fiance. Her mom is really tripping right now on somethings. But anyway Just want to say that I love you guys, and you guys are like my family in sence. I get to come to work and still have someone to argue with. LOL.

You all take care

 

What I said was that not all Pentecostals were in Pentecostal churches.

And the Pentecostals who believe that the evidence of speaking in tongues is neccesary for salvation are like the Baptists who think you have to be in their denomination to attain salvation...

And I pointed out the spelling error because I did not realize the thread was more than one page. Even Presbyterians, it seems, make mistakes.

 

See above, those false apostles were masquerading as angels of light. They were pretending to be apostles. They were using the name of Christ, they were saying things about God. Did that make it right? NO Paul even said they would receive a different spirit and they didn't care! Why do you think Paul warned them about this?

Yes, this was that Corinthian church again, the one that was unruly when it came to practicing thier gift of tongues, just as your church is doing today.

We are told to test the Spirits for a reason.

Now, how do you know it is from God? You must test them! Testing the spirit with the scriptures will show you if it is of God or not. Does the spirit within you compel you to break the commands of the Lord?? Then it is not of God! No excuses!!!

The Spirit also convinces you to believe a gospel that was not preached. You follow after the Oneness theology and the false plan of salvation that makes you trust in the water and holiness more then the blood of Christ. That is not what the Bible says frees us from our sins.

Read what you just said! The dispensation did not happen until the day of Pentecost!! Amen! I am glad that you finally see why those in Acts believed first and then got the Spirit. Not because that was the plan but because they had to wait until Jesus died, rose again and ascended into heaven. He told them to wait in Acts and upon that day he dispensed his Spirit among the Jews. In chapter 8 he dispensed it upon the Samaritans and in Chapter 10 He dispensed it upon the Gentiles. Once the Spirit had been dispensed, it no longer needed to wait, Grace is now effective!!!

You can say! Either the blood is applied or it is not. You say that the blood isn't applied until water baptism, but in Acts 10 the people received the Spirit before the Water. You can't have the Spirit without the regeneration. How did they get it? God makes special cases with special people? I think not. God's plan doesn't change for anyone. That is why the blood is applied the moment you believe. There are no works to get it there.

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]Lorelie, here is what I believe. I believe that it takes believing, Repentance and water baptism and the HOly GHost to get the blood applied.

I believe in living holy (although I am not at times, but believe that if you dont live holy than you will not go to heaven.

I belive you have to pray, fast and read your bible to maintain a close relationship with God.

I belive that one should praise God any way he/she feels fit to do so. Wether it seems far out there or not. As long has you are sincere and are doing it for the lord of lords and king of kings and as long as it comes from the heart.

I belive that when someone receives the Holy Ghost they will speak in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterence. Granny, Weather they can
talk or not. There is a deaf man that comes to our church who has no vocle chords and cannot speak spoke in tongues when he received the Holy Ghost.

I believe that you must repent your sins and live a Godly Life.

.

Lorelie I could tell you how every saterday how we have outreach, and every saterday night we have prayer meeting, and every saterday morning we have outreach, and every tuesday night we have bible study, every friday night we have youth group, every day we try to go out and teach a bible study. We do so much more than confine ourselves to the walls of the church. We do share to everyone that we come in contact with how good Jesus is. We brag and lift him up, b/c its not about us its all about him and what he has done for us. I could tell you so much but I would have to spend the rest of my life doing so. The conversation at hand is on salvation in a nutshell. There is so much to the UPC than what you see and hear. YOu cant understand it until you are a part of it. You are looking at it from the outside in.

Test the spirts to see if they be among you. Yes Satan will apear to be an angel of Light but he is not. How do we know? b/c we have tested him. We know that no everyone that will come saying they have come in the Name of Jesus have not. But what I am saying is that you will still know the tree by its fruit.

 

Believing is a work that we do. Even the deviles belive and tremble. So do they have the Holy GHost? Yes they did get the Holy Ghost before being baptized, but so what, what does the next verse say? Does it say they gave them the option to be baptized? No it was a commandment. Why did he command it? B/c he wanted to make up a commandment? No B/c he knew that those that believe and are baptized should be saved. Peter knew that they had to be born of the Water and The Spirit.

The only thing that is not a work for us is Christ Dyeing and nothing more. If Christ died according to what you say than that is enough for us. It is not enough just to belive. But we also have to live a life pleasing and acceptable to Jesus Christ. Its Called being obidient. If you want I will dig out all the sripture that I have to, But I have a feeling you know what I am talking about Lorelie.

God Bless

 

Why? Because we have to be obedient, or because we want to be obedient?

If you have to, then you're a Pharisee. If you want to, then you're saved.

 

No, it's not. The only point that is proven, because of the fact that later the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles the moment they heard the Word and believed, is that the Holy Spirit will fall on you when the Holy Spirit is good and ready....

 

No, it's not. The only point that is proven, because of the fact that later the Holy Spirit fell on the Gentiles the moment they heard the Word and believed, is that the Holy Spirit will fall on you when the Holy Spirit is good and ready....</font>[/QUOTE]Have you been baptized in the Name of Jesus yet? If not why are you disobeying what Peter Commanded? Don I really like you but for you to say that my pastor did not answer your question and to say that we are going directly against what the paul commands, Then I ask again, why are you going against what scripture and Peter commands in Acts 10. I am a Gentile and so are you and so were they. So is God going to make acceptions for someone else just b/c they feel or think a certain way? So again I ask why does your Pastor Teach anything diffrent than what Peter preached the Gentiles?

 

25. And Jesus knew * their thoughts, and said * unto them, Every kingdom divided * against itself is brought to desolation * ; and every city or house divided * against itself shall * not stand * :

26. And if Satan cast out * Satan, he is divided * against himself; how shall * then his kingdom stand * ?

Satan would never do anything that would make us closer to God. Satan cant give peace. Satan cant make you love God more and even if he could he would not.

When you have tears running down your face and you are speaking in tongues their is something there that surpasses anything you could imagine. And when God filled me with his spirit for the first time I remember How everything seemed so New. I had never felt so close to God in my life. And again satan will not do anything to make you closer to the one he hates[/QUOTE]

ONENESS,
Of the verses you quoted, none of them seem to answer the question that I posed to you. Your right, Satan does not divide his kingdom. That is why it has been well documented that Mormons, Hindus, and even the Voo-doo worshipers of Haiti have spoken in tongues. It has also been documented that a man in Charismatic church in B.C. spoke in tongues (in perfect Greek), saying over and over, "I l love the devil." You are right, Satan does not divide his kingdom. He is wiser than that.

Satan is a very good counterfeiter. He likes to play on peoples emotions. When you feel close to God, you are trusting an emotion. We are never supposed to trust are emotions. Trust the Word of God. Trust your faith and confidence in the Word of God, not your emotions. If I lived by my emotions I wouldn't get out of bed in the morning and go to work.

The very fact that Satan was counterfeiting these tongues is evidenced by Paul's strong rebuke to the Corinthians in 1Cor.12:3
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

They, through their demonic tongues were calling Jesus Christ accursed. I have no evidence that you are not doing the same thing. Neither do you. The verses that you posted do not convince me otherwise. How do you know that you are not giving glory to Satan, and not to God. You do not know what you are saying!!
DHK

 

In believing this you deny this:

And this:

You can't explain this:

In believing this you deny this:

For it isn't by living holy we go to heaven, we live holy because we are going to heaven.

You should do this to remain close to God, but the Bible teaches that:

We are sealed until the day we were redeemed.

We are now His children

The bible never teaches this. In believing this you ignore the commands of the Lord.

In believing this you deny this:

You ignore that the apostles actually did this:

In believing this you deny this:

And don't understand this:

You seem to believe a lot of things, but they don't agree with what the Bible teaches.

~Lorelei

 

Satan sure has those suicide-folks "convinced" that what they are doing in the 'name of allah' (who they think is God) is right. The devil is a deceiver & a mocker, giving out feelings that are false just so you can feel closer to a god who is not the God of the Bible. "Inventions of the flesh are created to stir up the flesh". It's all about EMOTIONALISM, pure & simple.

 

In believing this you deny this:

And this:

You can't explain this:

In believing this you deny this:

For it isn't by living holy we go to heaven, we live holy because we are going to heaven.

You should do this to remain close to God, but the Bible teaches that:

We are sealed until the day we were redeemed.

We are now His children

The bible never teaches this. In believing this you ignore the commands of the Lord.

In believing this you deny this:

You ignore that the apostles actually did this:

In believing this you deny this:

And don't understand this:

You seem to believe a lot of things, but they don't agree with what the Bible teaches.

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]

 

I respect personal testimonies like that!!

I just found out that Phillips, Craig and Dean are Oneness Pentecostal Ministers!

"My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you." -- Jesus

Simple? Yes! Easy? No!!

Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit -- just as you were called to one hope when you were called -- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. -- Eph 4:3-6

 

In believing this you deny this:

And this:

You can't explain this:

In believing this you deny this:

For it isn't by living holy we go to heaven, we live holy because we are going to heaven.

You should do this to remain close to God, but the Bible teaches that:

We are sealed until the day we were redeemed.

We are now His children

The bible never teaches this. In believing this you ignore the commands of the Lord.

In believing this you deny this:

You ignore that the apostles actually did this:

In believing this you deny this:

And don't understand this:

You seem to believe a lot of things, but they don't agree with what the Bible teaches.

~Lorelei</font>[/QUOTE]Lorelei alot of those scriptures look good all by themselves on a Billboard for someone to look at going down the interstate.

But if you are going to sit there and totally ignore the fact that the bible says

Hebrews 12:14-17

So what you say is that all one has to believe in Jesus and for one hour make him Lord of their lives and in return can have the eternal reward of heaven.

Any body can Live for God for a year, but if one confesses God as Lord, that is not a once in a lifetime "your done thats it you are home free" all you have to do. If one confess that Jesus is Lord of their life They strive to do everything that God wants them to do. It is not a pick and choose thing, ANd say God If you do this I will do that. Who is the God People?

Im telling you if you lived for God a year ago and you have fallen in to fornication, Lust, Murding, lyeing, coveting, witchcraft, and things that are like these, then there is a pretty clear warning that they are not going to inherit the kingdom of God. (Romans, Gal, Eph, Hebrews,....)

 

Well, Oneness, I have to agree with you on that. No sin will enter in to heaven.

Susan

 

Thank you, Katie! I didn't know that. (I had read several different articles that she was Oneness, which she denied)& many churches-including some Baptists, have cancelled her program. Also, the thing I've noticed is that this oneness-doctrine has a lot more in common with JW's, Church of Christ, Mormons, Catholics, to name a few, than they realize.

*Lorelei, if you will write a book, I will be the first to buy! God Bless.

 

I believe I've answered that question before: Yes.

Please tell me how you can say your pastor answered my question when his answer specifically contradicts scripture (i.e., he admitted that he allows his congregation to ALL speak in tongues, even though scripture specifically says let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret; but if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.)

What he answered, Brian and MEE, is that he basically doesn't care what the scripture says on the subject, and I believe THAT is the point that YOU've been missing all along!

If you agree with this pastor that you should not worry about these instructions, then you are ultimately stating that the bible is NOT God-breathed, and that its words are of no effect.

Don't you DARE talk to us about obedience again!!!!!

What in the world are you talking about?!?

 

She isn't oneness or pentecostal, shes ex-church of Christ, now running her own cultic church. Her beliefs are much closer to JW's.</font>[/QUOTE]Oh, yeah, I know a fair amount about her.

That's true that she's not oneness. Oneness folks are Modalists but she doesn't believe Jesus is God...both groups are non-Trinitarian but in different ways. You are right that her beliefs have quite a bit in common with the JWs.

I was quoted in this article about her...

Christianity Today: Gwen in the Balance

And I was named in this one:
Wall Street Journal Article About Weigh Down

But I backed off the whole thing shortly after that because, well, it didn't seem right for someone with a website called "Love Is The Most Excellent Way" to be going around angry enough that secular reporters were picking up on it...

That was my conviction anyway, fwiw...



[ May 21, 2002, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: AITB ]

 

Wrong, child.

You've accused me of taking things out of context before; you didn't prove it then, and you didn't offer one shred of evidence to support your accusation now.

Here's what scripture says:

Now, let's look at what Brian's pastor wrote:

Now, how am I taking his words--"this is in total harmony with the gospel"--out of context?

The gospel--God's inspired word, and therefore HIS Word, HIS instructions, HIS commandments--says if anyone speaks in an unknown tongue, let it be by two or at the most three. That archaic language we know as King James english says "and that by course"; this means "one at a time." The passage also says "and let one interpret...but if there be no interpreter, let him (the one speaking in tongues) keep silent."

By his own words, this pastor allows violation of these instructions, which means he doesn't care what scripture says.

So MEE, you can childishly say I'm taking things out of context all you want--but the burden of proving it is on you....

[ May 22, 2002, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

AITB

I'm going to take a look at at those. I was in Wd last year, and when I found out about it I quit, after much prayer, and not giving up I convinced my pastor to stip the others from meeting in the church. I have collected a lot of info on WD/Gwen and continue to recieve their newsletters for my collection.