What do you do to keep the sabbath holy?

(BobRyan)

Catholics claiming that the 2nd century church was "their catholic church" is a bit like Baptists saying that John the baptist was a Southern Baptist "because the word is the name".

(Singer)
Bob...it's even worse than that. They've admitted to me that the word "catholic" was commonly used to depict the christian church (At this time there were no Catholics per denomination). And, it was used as it meant general or universal christians. Then (I was told) it was Ignatius who added a capital C to the name and turned it into a proper name. I've since said that I'm catholic but not Catholic !

It compares with the use of the word Kleenex. It is of course a brand name of facial tissue but is misused to mean ALL facial tissues. "Give me a Kleenex, please"

So in the early days everyone was a catholic christian (universal, average, general christian) and it looks like a nasty trick to steal that term, add a capital C and call one's denomination by that name.

Just call me a catholic
Shame !

 

Agreed.

Just as "the baptist" meant one thing in the first century and something more sectarian today - so it is with the term Catholic - a very sectarian term today - but not the case in its "generic" non-denominational context.

But we have a few Catholic friends here trying that old stunt to see if it will fly.

I guess not - eh?

In Christ,

Bob

 

Early Church historian J. N. D. Kelly, a Protestant, writes: "As regards ‘Catholic’ . . . in the latter half of the second century at latest, we find it conveying the suggestion that the Catholic is the true Church as distinct from heretical congregations (cf., e.g., Muratorian Canon). . . . What these early Fathers were envisaging was almost always the empirical, visible society; they had little or no inkling of the distinction which was later to become important between a visible and an invisible Church" (Early Christian Doctrines, 190–1).

"We must hold to the Christian religion and to communication in her Church, which is Catholic and which is called Catholic not only by her own members but even by all her enemies. For when heretics or the adherents of schisms talk about her, not among themselves but with strangers, willy-nilly they call her nothing else but Catholic. For they will not be understood unless they distinguish her by this name which the whole world employs in her regard" (Saint Augustine of Hippo, The True Religion 7:12 [A.D. 390]).

 

It does not "good" to propose that John the Baptist was a follower of the true Messiah and thus not in the error of the Jewish leaders as a "way" to define John as a true "southern Baptist".

It also does no good to observe that churches following the truth in the NT were in distinction to some fellowships that had fallen into error as a way to define a "Catholic sectarian denomination" in the 2nd century.

In fact the struggle to get all the bishops to come under one defining leader - was still in full swing as late as the 3rd century.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Ignatius was probably the one to first mention it in is generic sense (as well as "Christianity"). The Apostles Creed followed, also using it as "universal". It became a "proper [denominational] name later on, as someone else pointed out.

 

Hiya Abiyah,
I keep in mind the scripture beow and try to follow it

ISAIAH 58 [12] And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.[13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

And i also keep in mind what Jesus said about the sabbath. He seemed to want to distance Himself from the hundreds of laws the Jews added to the sabbath command. They picked corn and ate on the sabbath, He said it was good to do good on the sabbath. He talked about saving cattle on the sabbath if it fell in a hole. He was Lord of the
sabbath. And that it was for man that He made the sabbath.

 

Then why are you posting to this thread?

 

-- A worthy questions for non-Baptists as well. So how do you do to keep the Sabbath holy? </font>[/QUOTE]Great question, strange that it's been misunderstood.

Here you go:

Up until a few months ago we were attending church with others on the Sabbath, but we are now worshipping at home.

I still go shopping on the Sabbath because it is literally the only day I don't work.

When my husband is working he has the car, and when I am working, I have the car (we only have one car) so the only time I can go shopping is on the day neither of us work!

I mentioned that because there are a lot of Sabbatarians who don't shop on the Sabbath.

We'd starve if I didn't!

We have a short family worship time of singing songs of praise, while I play guitar, and sometimes piano (depending on the song).

My husband or I give a brief devotional message from Scripture for the kids, and then we let them go in their room and watch a Bible video while we have a more 'adult' Bible study together.

We usually then take the kids to the beach or the nature preserve for a hike, or to the Mountains. For a time of enjoying God's creation.

Then at about 3 or so we go to Costco, and then I have to get ready for work! I go as soon as the sun sets.

I work saturday night, sunday all day, then M-Th nights.

For those who don't know, I deliver pizza.

God blessed us with this job, and I do quite well. We now have all our bills paid each month and we are making double payments on our credit card!

And they have never had a problem allowing me to take Sabbath off. They 'required' that all employees work on Halloween night, which landed on a friday this year. They allowed me to open that day and clock out as soon as the sun set.

Everyone else had to work all night. They didn't give it a second thought.

Praise God!!

God Bless,
Kelly

 

Thanks for the update and the input, Kelly.
I like to hear success stories and yours is turning into one due to the determination and application of principles by yourself and your husband.

God Bless

 

Actually, I don't consider any day of the week more holy then any other day of the week. I don't consider holidays more holy either... I just enjoy them as they come and go.

 

Interesting.

Here is what God Himself said about that

Isaiah 66 makes it clear regarding the “New Heavens and New Earth” also identified in Rev 20 -- “From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL Mankind come before Me to Worship”

How can Christ the Creator call for ALL mankind to honor Sabbath as a day of Worship like that in the New Earth? Surely the Sabbath will NOT be for all mankind since in fact it WAS only for the Jews – correct?

Christ the Creator addresses the point head-on

“The Sabbath WAS MADE for Mankind” Mark 2:27

From the very “making” of Christ the Creator’s Holy Day – it was “made for Mankind”

Ok – so “when did Christ the Creator MAKE it?”

Notice - Christ the Creator gave mankind the 7-day week in Gen 2:3. For it was ” Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made”. A 7-day week - not a 6-day week for mankind. Christ the Creator makes his holy 7th day memorial of His creative action in making mankind – “for mankind” when he MAKES it “holy” – sanctified in Gen 2:3 before the fall of mankind.

When God speaks directly to His people in Exodus 20 and summarizes that same Gen 1-2:3 event notice what Christ the Creator says of His own Holy day – Made Holy at HIS making of this planet and life on this planet – and mankind.

Exodus 20:8-11 summary of the Creation week "event" shows it to have been made holy, sanctified and blessed by virtue of God’s own act of resting – that “alone” is given as the basis for the command. The commandment is in the format “Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy…For in Six days God…. Therefore He Blessed, sanctified and made holy the Seventh day”.

Here it is in full as – God framed it at Sinai speaking directly to the People of God, He said

In Christ,

Bob

 

Robert, you forgot to add what else God Himself has said about the Sabbath in His Word.

Col 2:16-17, "Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a sabbath. These are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

The reason we know that Paul is speaking of the weekly Sabbath is because Paul is reproducing a familiar pattern that we already see in Scripture, which, in one fell swoop, designates (1) yearly, (2) monthly, and (3) weekly observances.

Colossians 2:16 - festival, new moon, sabbath

1 Chronicles 23:31 - fixed festivals, new moons, Sabbaths

2 Chronicles 2:4 - appointed feasts, new moons, Sabbaths

2 Chronicles 8:13 - annual feasts, new moons, Sabbaths

2 Chronicles 31:3 - fixed festivals, new moons, Sabbaths

Nehemiah 10:33 - appointed times, new moon, Sabbaths

Isa 1:13-14 - Appointed feasts, New moon, Sabbath

Ezekiel 45:17 - appointed feasts, new moons, Sabbaths

Ezek 46:1-11 - appointed feasts, new moons, Sabbath

Hosea 2:11 - festal assemblies, new moons, Sabbaths

With this in mind, Paul, incontrovertibly, is telling us in Col 2:16 that we are no longer held to keeping the Sabbath day.

The ritual stipulations of the Sinai Covenant were pedagogical; those who have come to enjoy divine sonship in the New Covenant are no longer bound by this custodian.

"[T]he law, which came four hundred and thirty years afterward, does not annul" the Abrahamic covenant of Genesis 22 (Gal 3:17). "Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions" (Gal 3:19). "efore faith came, we were confined under the law, kept under restraint until faith should be revealed. So that the law was our custodian until Christ came, that we might be justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a custodian; for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith." (Gal 3:23-26).

"But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how can you turn back again to the weak and beggarly elemental spirits, whose slaves you want to be once more? You observe days, and months, and seasons, and years! I am afraid I have labored over you in vain" (Gal 4:9-11).

 

That's the way I've always taken it, Carson.

What else could those scriptures mean.

 

Abiyah,

I apologize for not understanding your analogy; I read it several times and couldn't assimilate it. In this post, please let me see if I can further convey to you my viewpoint from St. Paul's perspective - as I read him - and the Catholic view from the Catechism.

One of St. Paul's major theses in the Pauline epistles is that the Torah was added due to the transgressions of Israel as a pedagogue (Gk. paidagogos; Galatians 4:23-29.).

"Why, then, the law? It was added for transgressions, until the descendant came to whom the promise had been made" (Gal 4:19).

Paul argues quite brilliantly in Galatians (so brilliantly that scholars are still dumbfounded by his seemingly ignorant statement in 3:36, which can only be understood by a thorough analysis of Gen 12-22) that the Gospel is the fulfillment of the Abrahamaic Covenant formed in Genesis 22, 430 years before the Torah was given to Israel as a disciplinarian due to Israel's subsequent transgressions.

In Galatians 3:15 and following, Paul argues from a covenantal standpoint that a covenant cannot be later amended. Now that God has provided and his seed has ratified the Abrahamic Covenant in Genesis 22 wherein all the nations are blessed (Gal 3:19), we are no longer bound by the ceremonial stipulations given to Israel throughout its desert wanderings (Gal 3:23-29).

Due to our baptism, "there is neither Jew nor Greek ... if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's descendant, heirs according to the promise [originally made to Abraham, 430 years before the giving of the Law at Sinai]" (Gal 3:28f).

Let me repeat that in other words. There are no longer some who should keep the ceremonial stipulations (Jewish Christians) and others who shouldn't (Gentile Christians). Due to Israel's being released from the paidagogos, Israel has been released from the Law which formed Israel as a Nation (to the exclusion of the Gentiles) so that the Church, which is "the Israel of God" (Gal 6:16) now makes no distinction between Jew and Gentile.

The Abrahamic covenant has finally been fulfilled, which brings God's family back into unity (this is why we believe in one, holy, catholic, and apostolic Church).

Paul then, after giving a packed allegory on Christian freedom as opposed to the slavery of Sinai, tells us that "the whole law is fulfilled in one statement, namely, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself'" (Gal 5:14) and so we are to "bear one another's burdens, and so you will fulfill the law of Christ" (Gal 6:2).

Now, I beg you to understand me. I am in no way saying that the Law is bad in any way.

Rather, "the Law is holy, spiritual, and good" (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 1963).

Forgive me for the lengh of what follows, but I want to include the Catechism's teaching on the Law, which is consonant with Jesus and Sacred Scripture:

 

Perhaps a few more Catholic sources would be helpful ...

This is from the catechism of the Catholic church, the official guide for every Catholic in obeying the laws of God and the church, paragraph 2172 & 2173.

" 2172 God's action is the model for human action. If God "rested and was refreshed" on the seventh day, man ought to "rest" and should let others especially the poor, "be refreshed." the Sabbath brings everyday work to a halt and provides a respite. It is the day of protest against the servitude of work and the worship of money.

" 2173 the Gospel reports many incidents when Jesus was accused of violating the Sabbath law. But Jesus never fails to respect the holiness of the day. He gives this law its authentic and authoritative interpretation: ' the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.' with compassion, Christ declares the Sabbath for doing good rather than harm, for saving life rather than killing. The Sabbath is the day of the Lord of mercies and a day to honor God. ' the son of man is Lord even of the Sabbath.' "


Dies Domini pt 11 "the rest of the Sabbath..discloses something of the nuptial shape of the relationship which God wants to establish with the creature made in his image, by calling that creature to enter a pact of love". Pt 15 "unlike many other precepts it (the Sabbath) is set not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue, the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human (not merely Jewish) heart".

Dies Domini pt 13 -
"the Sabbath ...is therefore rooted in the depths of God's plan. This is why unlike many other laws - it is not within the context of strictly cultic (Jewish) stipulations but within the Decalogue the "ten words" which represent the very pillars of moral life inscribed on the human heart!! In setting this commandment within the context of the basic structure of ethics, Israel and then the church declare that they consider it not just a matter of community religious discipline but a defining and indelible expression of our relationship to God, announced and expounded by biblical revelations.

In Christ,

Bob

 

You are in error in that post on so many points - it is difficult to tally them all in one response.

#1. You offer "guesswork" instead of dealing with the post that I gave that shows not only WAS the Sabbath made for "mankind" but it WILL CONTINUE to apply to "mankind" in the New Earth.

#2. The "shadows" of what is to come - regarding the Messiah - "was not" the purpose or function of the Sabbath in Gen 2:3 and even your own RC sources admit to this.

#3. By failing to address the points made - you simply opt for a "slice and dice" approach to scripture rather than a exegetically sound "both-and" model AND in this case you even deny the teacching of your own Pope to do it.

And according to your own Pope - the 10 commmandments do not fit the cultic model you speculate for them above.

Note ..

In other words you guesswork is denied even by your own leaderhship -- at least "that one".

You have done well to snip out segments of Gal 3 and skp about in the chapter as you do above - since leaving in the sections you omitted would have obliterated that case you seek to make of it.

See the next post.

In Christ,

Bob

 

In the event that there is really any interest at all in what Galations 3 says about the law of God in an exegetically faithful manner ...

As we join WITH Abraham in that Faith - we are among the Saints - both OT and NT no Change. The same Solution - Faith in God.

8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "" ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU.''

We are blessed WITH Abraham - "the BELIEVER" showing our UNION/Identification/Continuity with the SAINTS of the OT. Seen again in Heb 11.
Faith is attributed “Before the Cross” even in the case of Abraham. We see this again in Heb 11 regarding the giants of faith in the OT set as examples EVEN for NT saints. This sets the “context” for “faith” in Gal 03 as we shall see it used again later.

No restriction in time - ALL (OT and NT) are under the curse of the law (ALL have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God) Rom 3.

No sense of "Well you really don't have to worry about this curse since no law exists after Christ died".
Those under the Old Covenant of “obey and live” – live under a curse – today as they did in the OT. This is not the picture of Abraham but of Judas.

No one is justified by the Law – OT or NT. No change.

Christ redeemed US from the curse – (HE Became a Curse for US!) – yes that is true.

That means that mankind (both OT and NT) is under a curse until we come to the point of belief – until we come to the faith of Abraham. No Change OT, NT.

The LAW STILL places ALL under a curse until they come to FAITH OT, NT no change.

That promise given to Abraham (called the Gospel in vs 8 ) EXISTS in parallel with the Law of God at Sinai - for the OT saints. It precedes that Sinai event.

The promise “remains” OT and NT – no change.

The Law still condemns – OT and NT – no change.

Many people jump on this point (excluding almost the entire chapter to do so) and claim to see a start for the 10 commandments at Sinai and "an end" of the 10 commandment law as soon as Christ is born (not even content to wait for his death on the cross). And indeed - the verse does make it appear that either the law or the "agency of a mediator" is started at Sinai and ended with the coming of Christ as Messiah.

In Hebrews 7 we see that in fact it is the law regarding the agency of the mediator - the "earthly priesthood" that was "new"
at Sinai and ended with Christ as HE became our High Priest - no longer is it "man" according to the chapter.

But is that what we are to get from Gal 3 as well? Are we to conclude that Paul is saying that Murder and idolatry and taking
God's name in vain "used to be ok before Sinai" and are "now ok after the birth of Christ"?

Is he speaking about the Mosaic code of Deut 6:5 "Love for God" and Levitical code Lev 19:18 "Love for your neighbor" and
saying that transgressing these laws of Moses used to be ok before the cross and are once again ok to transgress after
the coming of Christ as a Baby?.

Paul teaches in the next chapter that when Christ came 'the see came" He was born "Under the law" fully obligated to obey
it perfectly (sinlessly) Gal 4:4-5 that He might redeem those who were "under the law". In Gal 3 Paul points out that the law
places "ALL men under sin" Gal 3:22-23 showing our "need" of salvation - our "need" of a Savior.

IF the law ended at the birth of Christ there was nothing left for him to "obey". If the law that "Defines Sin" ended at the cross
then those born after the cross - "need no savior" - for as Paul says "where there is no law there is no sin" Romans 4:15.

But Paul makes the case in Romans 7 regarding his own post cross experience - that it was the 10 commandment law that
still defined sin for him and placed him in need.

The ONE Gospel was in effect in the OT as much as 430 years BEFORE Sinai.

The LAW of God was never a means of salvation - Rather the Gospel promise preceding Sinai by at least 430 years was in effect WHILE Sinai's law was ALSO in effect. No contradiction. "Is the LAW CONTRARY to the Gospel"? Paul's answer is that it NEVER was!

God did not give Adam the Sabbath so Adam could be saved. Nor would Abraham, Moses, David be "saved" by resting on Sabbath instead of accepting God's substitutionary sacrifice of Christ. NOR could they be "saved" by Loving God (Deut 6:5) and Loving their neighbor (Lev 19:18)

When God said coveting was sin in order to tell lost humanity that by simply turning away from their sin of coveting - LOST humanity
could be saved. Salvation - WAS and still IS based on a promise. And coveting is STILL wrong, and loving God is STILL right and
God's Creation Sabbath is STILL "made for mankind" Mark 2:27.

All are still under sin - all still need Christ all still need to resolve the problem of scripture shutting them up under sin by
turning to Christ, by believing by being "justified by faith". We must all turn from rebellion to faith in Christ. And when we
do "scripture" is not abolished.

Again - my point. Sin is still a reality
- the law (even the law of gal 3 mentioned here as scripture - and as given at Sinai) still defines sin and places us under it.

The "all" that we find here (in the context of writing to the gentiles of a gentile church in Galatia) is really all - not just Jews.

The same all that is condemned here - will be justified and saved if they turn to faith and believe (vs 28)

The text did not say "but when Jesus came to earth we were no longer bound by
God's Law". it says "but after faith is come we are no longer under a
schoolmaster". it is the moment of faith in Christ
- not the moment of crucifixion that transfers a human out of the lost state (condemned under the active and authoritative scripture of God)

In Christ,

Bob