2 Corinthians 6:1

Me2,

Are you saying that certain people are elected to be saved and some are elected not to be saved?

 

Do you have a dictionary. Use it please. Look up the word grace.
Grace is not an ongoing process.
Grace has nothing to do with judgement. These are imaginary defintions that you have made up.

Grace is God's free unmerited favor, and that is all it is.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]I don't know exactly what ME2 means by Grace is an ongoing process, but I do know that if he means that one grows in Grace, then he is right.

 

LorrieGrace,

there is a specific number of elect that compose the bride of christ. which when the number is fulfilled in mankinds linear history denotes the beginning of the next age.

mankinds history has already been written on absolute time.
we are "fleshing out" Gods spiritual design in finite time.

It is man made doctrine to state man is saved and not saved in this age or that age.
whenever God calls the individual. It is their time to begin working their way back into the image from which they came forth from. whenever the age.

 

We are to grow in grace.

2 Peter 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

But that doesn't mean that grace is some kind of process. It isn't. In its most general terms grace is simply unmerited favor. That is a very general definition. To apply that more specifically one defined it this way: "God's riches at Christ's expense." It is the riches of God that are secured for us as a result of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, and our acceptance of Him as Saviour. We grow in grace as we realize the abundance of the riches of God's grace (unmerited favor) all around us, especially as it pertains to salvation. To come to the realization after you accept Christ that you are:
a child of God,
A child of the King of Kings, and Lord of Lords,
an heir of God, and joint heir of Jesus Christ,
adopted into the family of God,
sealed by the Holy Spirit of God,
indwelt by the Holy Spirit,
made a citizen of Heaven,
an ambassador for Jesus Christ,
a servant of the Most High God,

Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

To grow is not necessarily a process. It is a realization of all of the riches of God (his unmerited favor toward us). Notice the rest of the verse: "and in the KNOWLEDGE of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."
DHK

 

Me2's doctrine is not of the Bible however. Me2's doctrine is Me2-made. He is a universalist who believes that Stalin, Hitler, Hussein, and all the unsaved, will be in Heaven. All wicked and good will be in heaven. That is his belief.
DHK

 

DHK,


What makes you think that your more worthy to be saved as opposed to every other enemy of God?

wouldnt that be Impartial Grace...

believing God can save you and not save them?

or believing God loves you more than them?
or that Jesus died for you and not them.?

or that the righteousness of Gods lamb is incapable of saving them, as well as all men?

your belief of "impartial grace" should definitely be studied. you might find your in the same boat today as stalin, hitler, hussein...

thats not me2's doctrine...thats biblical bud!.

Me2

 

It is not that I am more worthy. I am not. And that is what grace is all about. Though I am unworthy God has bestowed his mercy and grace upon me. However, to avail myself of his grace and mercy, I must first accept his sacrifice for me by faith. If I do not accept what he has done for me on the cross, he will not save me. That much is made clear in the Bible. If you refuse to believe the gospel; the everlasting reward of the righteous in Heaven, and the everlasting punishment of the wicked in Hell, then you fail to understand the Scriptures. Our God is a just God. If there is an eternal Heaven; there is also an eternal hell.
DHK

 

lets see..God is Sovereign and Im Not.

he can do anything and I can do NOTHING.

If he desires to save me can I REFUSE????

this is called free will (by "man made religion") which doesnt exist in this universe. It is an affront to believe God doesnt LOVE his creation and wouldnt die for it if need be..whatever you or I think different.

although If God is truly sovereign. He could make you believe you had free will and a choice to deny his operation of salvation.. save you at the last second..still love you and still be sovereign.

and their aint a darn thing you could do about it.

you continually want to read a spiritually written book in a literal fashion after repeatedly being reminded that is an improper way of approaching or understanding God. yet you still desire to interpret Gods word with your carnal imagination.

if God doesnt speak to you directly in a spiritual manner. its your imagination. your turning his truth into a lie you create from your imagination.

and yes Our God is just. If he saves you. He saves everyone...welcome to your hell on earth. God is going to save all the husseins and stalins he created. he saves because he forgives all of his enemies to the uttermost.

but then theirs his nethods. its by grace. which means we observe all the evil and error in our flesh. He interjects his spirit and begins the chastising overagainst the error and evil with truth and righteousness and forgiveness.

if he treats his bride this way. will he treat anyone else differently. nope. he treats everyone the same. yu get the bad, and you get the good.

nobody is more special than anyone else. were all treated equally. all men. the sinner and well as the saint.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

its the simplicity of Gods word that makes the wise seem as fools everytime... all men

the question for the personpossessing the spirit of Christ within them is what is the mind of Christ...is his desires to save all, or only some?..

well did he die for all of his fathers enemies or just a few.? because is Christ is indeed within you. your desire is that the fathers desires as weell as the sons desires be fulfilled.

I already know the answer. it either the flesh that states that only some will be saved..and then theirs the spirits desires...that all men be saved. no matter what the sins of unrighteousness.

Its all forgivable.

Me2

 

This is where your man-made religion starts, and becomes heretical. God gave man a free will to choose between good and evil. Read the story of the fall of man.
DHK

 

DHK,

This is where we have another difference of interpretation. Me2 says that Adam was predestined to fall.

The tree of the knowledge of Good and evil was the LAW. it was carnal knowledge. knowledge concerning his comprehension of what was "good and Evil"

ever notice in the garden that everything was made in a fashion that required death to operate.
everything beared seed which required death..entropy. adam was placed in a world based on operating by death.

he was already presently "in vanity" before the tree was mentioned

he himself was in a body of death.
He was using his carnal understanding.
He wanted to be like God.
but was it of the mind of Christ?.
Was it righteous knowledge?

we both know adam was not in the NT era and wasnt offered a personal relationship with God. he received a working covenant. yet not a perfect covenant.

adam was placed into vanity "not willingly".
adam became the first natural man. He didnt have free will. he acted in the nature he was placed in. He acted carnally.

God didnt ask Adam. He placed adam into the flesh and adam acted accordingly. he desired knowledge. not the mind of christ, but knowledge he could relate to. the law which God provided him at the moment to make him wise.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,
Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

the creature shall be delivered. not just some. but all creation. delivered from death.

Ive read the fall of adam without the pious religious interpretations of mans imagination. I allowed God to tell me a story. guess what?. He told me a story of redemption of a creation he loves unconditionally. he told me a story based on his nature and from his viewpoint.
God told me a story based on his TOTAL sovereignty and not confused by mans alternative choice if he could have one to make.. which he doesnt.

it is the illusion of free will overagainst the sovereignty of God that is heretical. but thats another story..

this ones about grace..which Adam didnt have the opportunity to receive...yet..

Me2

 

Me2

Well WHERE have YOU been? My e-mail is down, I see you have both refreshed and refired yourself lol!

Anyway, its always good to see your keyboard strokes.

God Bless Me2

Seth3

 

Me2,

I have heard someone on the radio, Brother Camping (or sounds like that). You sound like him in your posts. Do you listen to and believe as he does?

 

I've heard Camping personally according to him if you feel the need to go to the bathroom its considered a "work" to him and you will fry for it. lol! Me 2 is nothing like that lol!

Me2 believes in the POWER of God through the working of grace in one to will and to do Gods pleasure as God works in ones heart (as I see it).

Gods grace is not ineffectual but powerful.

God Bless

Seth3

 

DHK,

the story of adam and the garden of eden is both allegorical and historical. its littered with symbols told in a poetic fashion. heck..the story is told THREE TIMES. all of which contain dissimular but paralleling information. the "garden of eden" is within the soul of each man. the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is the law.

when God calls man. God guides man mind to the tree in the middle of the mans soul.

all men (at some time) are called of God and first receive the law (in their hearts) and must make the same similar choices.

the methodology describing salvation is the same as in all men. we receive the law. we begin building houses of man-made doctrine on foundations that are of his imagination. we soon discover we are antichrists being little gods. at some point we are triumphantly conquered by the Lord Jesus Christ. and we abdicate the thrones within the temples of our hearts and he becomes lord in our lives.

Is it God or man forcing a choice here?.

Does God mold man like clay or does man tell God what their desires are to be?

God states hes in control...(but no DHK states that man has control..he has free will..and power to defeat even Gods will.)

If we are chosen to be the elect....We fall! like the house built on sand..like babylon..our city falls when the flood waters (truth) of God rushes against us.

this didnt happen to adam..nor any other man born of flesh until christ was resurrected. every man of the OT (excluding one) reflected the image of a fleshly carnal natured man.

they didnt have the spirit of Christ within them until the NT. their house couldnt fall for the rock didnt exist. the doctrine of God couldnt be built on a foundation that was destined to fall.

God speaks to each individual man DHK. One at a time. the bible is a tool. it speaks of others expereinces and knowledge. words that the elect can relate to. the bible reflect truth. but the spirit within man is the truth. when the spirit speaks no man can resist. the bible though is a book.
it cant speak. yet man can read it and imagine whatever the want to.

when christ speaks. the allegorical and figurative words spoken in the book called the bible becomes life as it reflect what we understand as we listen TO THE SPIRIT WITH US.

Grace is given to mankind in the form of the person of the Lord Jesus Christ.
If one has the mind of Christ. He will discover that all mankind is eventually made after tha image called Jesus Christ.

Like adam was..all mankind is..placed in death today. working our way back to the inevitable conclusion of becoming one with God in the image of the Lord Jesus Christ. from the image came mankind and back into the image will mankind return.

Grace works against man from the inside out as the law and satan attack man from the outside in. this struggle guides each man to his enevitable conclusion.

as long as mankind sins. grace will correct the sin with its positive push and pull of mercy and forgiveness. while at the same time instructing man that he is under the law of the spirit instead af the law of moses.

the difference when satan attacks us. he uses the law. and the law has no mercy.

the spirit of christ is not the law of moses.

the spirt of christ...contains unlimited mercy and forgiveness.

and he died so that his spirit could be given to all men equally.

but what of the 4000 years when mankind didnt receive the personal spirit of christ within them. the ones that wassnt given the grace of god but the law of moses.

thats what the next age is about. the elect, or the firstfruits chosen by God will preach the spirit of Christ to each and every person of the OT as well as the NT age.

so that Every man will receive the law. have the house built on sand... fall... spiritually die be judged and receive the opportunity to rebuild their new house on the Rock which is call The Spirit of Jesus Christ.

thats grace shown to all men. it will happen yet beginning in the next age to come

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

grace begins by the observation of the law and the destroying tha carnal spirit of man made religion.

Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

all mankind drinks of "the law"..all mankinds religious "babylon" eventually falls.

all mankind eventually observes the arrival of their new jerusalem. all mankind was a citizen before the foundation of the world and everyone still is far after this world ends.

there is no more death. there is only grace.

(but those are only stories...right DHK.. )

(Seth3..remember when I congradulated you concerning the discovering your "babylon" had fallen?.. )

Me2

 

LorrieGrace,

Im sorry I dont recognize the person you've mentioned. although there are others who can relate what I espouse...

related articles
more related articles
even more related articles
Yea Buddy!....even more related articles

riddle me this..

when jesus came to earth the first time. did he find faith in the mainstream orthodox religions made by man?

do you think he would find faith in mainstream orthodox religions made by man if he were to returned today?

my advise..continue to look elsewhere for the truth if you "love it" with all your heart, mind and soul.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

"love of the truth" will keep you searching until your satisfied with what you find.

Me2

 

Me2,

Yepper! Look who caused the woman to drink the water that causeth a curse but preist Himself?

Numbers 5:18-22 And the priest shall set the WOMAN before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial IN HER HANDS, which [is] the JEALOUSY OFFERING: and the priest shall have in his hand the BITTER WATER that CAUSETH the CURSE.

In verse 23 (later)The preist writes down curses in a book (Blots THEM OUT) with BITTER WATER (Next) He CAUSES HER (THE WOMAN) to DRINK the WATER that CAUSES the CURSE. (Ye Shall indeed DRINK MY CUP Christ says)= Same principle as the Law. Unfaithful to HIM by TURNING ASIDE FROM HIM.

Unfaithful and unwise servent revealed? Becoming FOOLS in order to become Wise and Faithful. Two houses in us.. One falls the other rises. One with brick and slime the other Stone and tempered morter (Love).

Wonder if that "little scroll" John ate made His belly bitter after he ate?

Lets look here and we’ll come back

Neh. 10:29 (Defines this for us)

Neh. 10:29 They clave to their brethren, their nobles, and ENTERED INTO AN OATH, TO WALK IN GODS LAW, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to OBSERVE AND DO all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and his judgments and his statutes.

In others words “All the Lord said WE WILL DO” (Okay... RIGHT! Whats impossible with men is possible with God HE BUILDS NOT US, sound familiar? LET US BUILD? I think not.

Ezek 20:11 I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgements, WHICH if a man do he shall LIVE BY (Just live by Faith)

Ezekiel 20:25 Wherefore I gave them Statutes that were not good, and judgements whereby they should NOT LIVE. (Ye shall surely DIE) is seen at the Tree of knowledge of good and evil= THE LAW!!

So heres Pauls thought… The Commandment He thought that was ordained to life ((BROUGHT DEATH)).

This is Kool

Ezekiel 24:12 She hath wearied herself with LIES, and her great scum went NOT forth out of her. HER SCUM SHALL BE IN THE FIRE.

Hold on IT GETS BETTER!!!

Isaiah 28:15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made LIES OUR REFUGE, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Ooopsy! They just REALIZED SOMETHING!!

But what does God do? Lets see redemption here ok?

Isaiah 28:18 And your COVENANT WITH DEATH shall be DISANULLED, and your AGREEMENT with HELL shall NOT STAND; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be TRODDEN DOWN BY IT.

Hmmmmm... SAVED YET BY FIRE??? If one builds incorectly as Paul said HE SUFFERS LOSS (HOUSE FALLS) REVEALED BY FIRE=GODS WORD which is SPIRIT (Or a MIGHTY WIND that Huffs and puffs and BLOWS YOUR HOUSE DOWN)

Hosea 13:14 I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I WILL BE THY PLAGUES; O GRAVE, I WILL BE THY DESTRUCTION: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

Exodus 9:14 I will at this time send all MY PLAGUES upon THINE HEART, and upon thy servants, and upon thy people; that THOU MAYEST KNOW that [there is] NONE LIKE ME in all the earth.

Death and destruction are NAKED before the Lord how much more THE HEARTS OF MEN.

They UNDER THE LAW were ALREADY IN DEATH (living physically) Jesus the PASSOVER LAMB is where He PASSES you OVER through belief in Him over into the NEWNESS of LIFE by His Spirit. Making one ALIVE to GOD. So one is PUT TO DEATH in the Body By the Law =Sword bathed in Blood= God TAKES THE FIRSTBORN OF EGYPT and SLAYS “””HIM”””. Flesh and BLOOD cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, but FLESH AND BONE CAN. So His Sword bathed in the Blood of the First born. (Carnal man) the Second Man Christ takes His PLACE in you.


Then return again to Numbers

Numbers 5:21-22 Then the priest shall charge the woman with an oath of cursing, and the priest shall say unto the woman, The LORD make thee a curse and an oath among thy people, when the LORD doth make thy THIGH TO ROT, and thy BELLY TO SWELLl;
And this WATER that CAUSETH THE CURSE shall go INTO THY BOWELS, to make [thy] belly to swell, and [thy] THIGH TO ROT: And the WOMAN SHALL SAY, AMEN AND AMEN

Heres Clues to the THIGH itself

Isaiah31:3 Now the Egyptians are MEN and NOT GOD their HORSES are FLESH NOT SPIRIT.

Psalms 147:10 (gives further understanding)

He DELIGHTETH NOT in the STRENGTH of HORSES (FLESH), He taketh no pleasure IN THE LEGS OF A MAN.

The Thigh to ROT (Remove your STRENGTH!)… in other words LAME YOU the LEG YOU STAND ON. Spiritual truths under the Law you become weaker NOT STRONGER theres not STRENGTH in the LEGS of a MAN to be DELIVERED OF IT. Or bear offspring, Fruit of THY WOMB will only be the FIRSTBORN of EGYPT!!!

Judges 15:8 And SMOTE them HIP AND THIGH with a GREAT SLAUGHTER. For the Glory of YOUNG MEN is THEIR STRENGTH (Prov 20:29)

So Christ REDEEMS from the CURSE OF THE LAW but the SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST will WILL DRINK, FILLING UP IN OURSELVES what is lacking. The Cup in Benjimins Sack.


Hab 2:3Yea also, because he transgresseth by WINE, [he is] a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and [is] as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people:

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Hell is NAKED (No covering) UNDER LAW a DEEP PIT seen as HER HOUSE (Place of Worship) a Way that SEEMETH RIGHT to a man but the End thereof is DEATH.

A Bed of suffering. A Torment and a Flame. Chains of darkness (Having no Light) She is BLIND and those who follow HER who take hold of her steps down into Hell. She rises to MEET THEE. She is the Pit (where the blind lead the blind into). She opens her MOUTH AGAINST THEE. She is never full (of the blood of the saints) and in HER is found the blood of them. As Hypocrits in Darkness( Blind men) they shut up the Kingdom to others but neither do they enter in. Shut up under the Law, where as Christ is the Door Himself (Life back from the dead) Christ is there to LEAD OUT OF HER. Set FREE her Captives. Her prisoners bound under the law UNTIL Faith be REVEALED IN THEM. "Sealed" from seeing the Truth. Brought to the OBEDIENCE of the FAITH.

Yep... The Man of sin is us until our house crashes and we build on the obedience of the Faith of Christ, as a wise builder.

God Bless Me2 its always a delight.

Seth3

[ November 10, 2004, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: Seth3 ]

 

Me2 wrote:

"we soon discover we are antichrists being little gods. at some point we are triumphantly conquered by the Lord Jesus Christ. and we abdicate the thrones within the temples of our hearts and he becomes lord in our lives."

This sounds weird. Do you and Seth3 go to the same church?? I am just curious because I don't understand yall's post all that well. I am not trying to be mean. But yall loose me occasionally.

 

Hey Lorrie Grace,

Sorry about losing you there. Its something you think on for awhile before it truly becomes yours when it comes to pass. But heres a couple verses from our Lord Himself and where these are seen in Psalms.


Jesus says,

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken


*Here’s where Christ is referring to them as “gods” in psalms, note what happens after.


Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye [are] gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High.


Psalm 82:7 BUT ye shall DIE LIKE MEN, and FALL like one of the princes.

Doctrines and traditions of men and under the law AGAINST CHRIST. Little "anti gods" (a cute way of saying it)


But No I have never Met Me2 before I just agree on alot of what we have both apparently struggled at one time to grasp and that struggle and coming to the understanding of it, I find a bond with. I believe I saw him here years ago and he was a big part of my growth. Coming here again after two years of never hearing from each other its been a blessing as usual.

I don't know about me2 but I have never "gone to an institutionalized" church (as one would put it). I never did (perhaps my first 3 months as a christian)I've been a christian for only 15 years. I felt led out of it and simply followed that leading. Since then I look to some very good freinds in the Lord in whom I can see the blessing in Christ and discern by their fruits as my teachers BECAUSE they hear the One and only Teacher, the Lord obviously.

It definately doesn't take papers to teach and bless in Christ. I don't see Peter having any and I thought, "I'm gonna trust you Lord" You show me and lead me to those you desire to listen to and over the years out come all these "little stars" (as I love to call them) that God has knitted me together with and what a blessing waiting on what the Lord built among us. None of us "go" to church but they certainly know how to "be" the church and the participation and joy is beyond anything I could imagine in Our Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe it to be a very joyful thing we have.

So no, I've been outside the walls of what is established on street corners so I have no clue as to what they teach.

God Bless Lorrie Grace

Seth3

 

Perhaps you were never a Christian in the first place. It sounds like it, doesnt' it. "I've been a Christian for only 15 years."
"I felt led out of it."
Out of Christianity and into what? A cult? What are you in now if you are not in Christianity?

Concerning teachers, God raised up teachers and preachers in every church for a purpose. The Great Commission commands every believer on a certain level to teach, and thus to submit to teaching. You can't teach unless you are first taught. Here is what Paul told Timothy:

2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.

The entire ministry of true Biblical Christianity is based around a ministry of teaching and of preaching. One learns from their teachers. To say that you learn only from God, and only from Christ, and only from the Holy Spirit, is both arrogant proud. It is sin in itself, and it leads one into ignorance, not spirituality. Your posts seem to be an indicator of that very thing.

Has it ever occurred to you that every book past the book of Acts was either written to a church, or a pastor of a church. Part of the Book of Revelation was written to 7 churches. God's instrument for this day and age is the local church, the very institution that you disdain. That is the institution which he has ordained. Study the Book of Acts. Paul went on 3 different missionary journeys, and in those journeys established over 100 local churches. Paul must have been doing something right, don't you think. I believe I would rather go with the theology of Paul, than the theology of Seth.
DHK