Is Prayer Necessary for Salvation?

Kathryn here's another illustration.

"For by plane which you boarded through faith, you arrived here, but you were not the pilot though your plane had a pilot, and all you could do is sit in one of the passenger seats, so you have nothing to boast about."

The question is this, What really transpired?

The plane was available to you, and you knew your destination, and you knew that there was nothing you could do to fly the plane, and you contributed nothing to the effort, so you could not boast about doing anything, yet you arrived because you had Faith to get on the plane.

No one held a gun at your head and forced you to get on board the airplane, you did it out of faith! But if you did not have the faith to board the plane, you would not have made the trip, so what got you from point A to point B? Your FAITH, everything else was already in place, already done for you....and THAT IS GRACE!

Faith is your action in response to the existing GRACE!

That is parallel to:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and not of your self, it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast."

I hope this helps you to understand!

 

The atonement of Christ, his suffering and death, is what makes the New Covenant avalible to us. God's grace, or favor, towards mankind is why Jesus came to us in the first time. The grace of God allows salvation to be avalible to those who choose to respond to God.

Right, this is why we no longer atone for sins through mosaic law.

The issue here is understanding what faith is.

We are saved by grace. This doesn't mean everyone is eternally saved. It means that through God's favor we can be saved.

You are flying all over the board with this concept. Because what you are saying here, depending on how you define your words, is not seen in the Bible. If you mean to suggest that faith means mere belief, you are wrong. Our fruits done through the grace of God after redemption santify us. Faith justifies us. Biblically however we know there is more to faith than mere belief, since we know even the demons understand Jesus is the Messiah and died for the sins of humanity. Though they are demons and not humans, the illustration makes its point.

Our initial justification is a work of God. Not anything that we can ever contribute to, but only something that we can participate in.

 

Kathryn,
Once again you are deceived. Faith is the human response to Divine truth. The truth about things not seen.

Faith is the acceptance of truth while lack of Faith is the rejection of truth.

Faith is the substance of what we hope for, the evidence of what we cannot see.

We cannot see what we believe exists, but we have faith that it does exist! For example, Jesus said, "...Whosoever believeth in Him shall have everlasting life". That is but a promise of something that we cannot see, but we hope it is true, so we have faith that provides the substance of what we hope for which is, fulfillment of Jesus promise to us.

We have nothing to offer but faith as the substance of what we hope for.

Our faith is also the only evidence that we can offer as proof that what we hope for is real.

Faith is not a gift of God, it is a requirement placed upon man by God in order for man to be saved! God made man with the innate ability to have faith! Man can have faith in virtually anything, a chair, a car, a spouse, children, his own abilities to do a wide variety of things such as skiing, playing golf, driving a car, etc.,

Faith in God is not a gift from God but is one more thing that man can, and in order to be saved must have. Granted, Faith in God is the most important faith that man can have, but it is not the only faith that man can and must have. To define faith as a gift of God is quite simply incorrect.

Ephesians 2:8 does not say that faith is the gift of God, but that "been saved" is the gift of God. Look at the context which is Eph 2:1-10 the context is that salvation is the gift of God, and not Faith! Salvation is what God gives to those men who believe in (have faith in) Him.

 

Kathryn,

DHK and Yeslew2 insist that something like baptism is a work of the law, done by man, instead of a work of God that man merely participates in, thus baptism cannot be tied in anyway with redemption, as you and any other liturgical church sees it.

As you can see from DHK's post it is the application of the head knowledge to the heart that they believe saves, and the normal means of doing this is through prayer. You will never get them to say "yes" to your question though.

 

It is not the faith that is the gift here; it is the salvation.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

You must be one special person Adam.
The Bible says that no man has seen God face to face, and lived.
Even when Christ was on earth, concerning baptism Jesus baptized no one, only his disciples baptized.
But now Jesus is not here in person.

So tell me: Have you ever seen God baptize anyone?
Have you ever seen God being the recipient of anyone's baptism?

Is baptism always done by a man?
Is the recipient of the baptism always a man (mankind meaning inclunding women)?
If the answer is yes here, Adam, then it is a work of man and not of God. Man does it. Man receives it. It is a work of man and not of God. God commands it, but God isn't doing it. Man is doing it, carrying out the command of God. Therefore it is still man's work. A relgious work, yes, but the work of a man, nevertheless. Works have no place in God's economy of salvation. If they do in your understanding of salvaton, then you are not saved, for one can only be saved through grace, by faith, without works. You either believe the Bible or you don't.
DHK

 

"whoa, YOU silver tongued devil you", DHK and Yelsew2 did not say, or "insist" what you insinuate they did. "Back off Jack" you sidewinder! You ain't gonna get away with that kind of twistin' of my words nor of DHKs.

 

Go back and read my posts you tin horn, and you'll see that I have already answered the question!

 

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

The gospel is very plain and very simple: the death, the burial and the resurrection of Jesus Christ. It is the gospel by which you are saved. This is which Paul teaches and declares right here.
The word "gospel" simply means "good news"
The gospel is: the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

A gospel is the Gospel of Matthew, or the Gospel of Mark, or the Gospel of Luek, or the Gospel of John.

To be saved there is only one gospel and that is given in 1Cor.15:1-4
Furthermore, Paul said:

Galatians 1:6-9 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

There is only one gospel. It is described in 1Cor.15:1-4. It is that gospel which saves. It is a gospel without works, and it is by faith alone. If you have any other gospel, a gospel that includes works, Paul says that you are accursed.
DHK