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Nicene Creed & Baptist beliefs

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by trying2understand, Aug 6, 2002.

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  1. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Looking around the web, I see that there are some Baptist churches that hold to the Nicene Creed.

    I find this interesting. The Nicene Creed says, "I acknowledge one baptism for the remission of sins" or "for the forgiveness of sins".

    I have yet to meet a single Baptist that thought that Baptism had anything to do with the remission or forgiveness of sins.

    Can anyone explain this seeming contradiction for me?
     
    #1 trying2understand, Aug 6, 2002
  2. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    think: symbolism ;)
     
    #2 Brother Adam, Aug 6, 2002
  3. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Do you seriously think that the words "for the remission of sins" in the Nicene Creed are symbolic?

    Teaching the faith was one of the purposes of creeds in the early Church. They were also simple and direct statements of faith to prevent or combat error. Symbolism would not serve either purpose well.

    What other parts of the Creed do you take symbolicly?
     
    #3 trying2understand, Aug 6, 2002
  4. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    no, no, no. Sorry, I should have written more at the time. I never said that I myself believed that part to be symbolic. You just asked for a possible explaination. And that would be one. Whether or not I believe them to be symbolic is irrelavent so I won't say if I do or not.

    Bro. Adam
     
    #4 Brother Adam, Aug 6, 2002
  5. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Not understanding you here, Adam.

    Does your church hold to the Nicene Creed?

    Do you hold to the Nicene Creed?
     
    #5 trying2understand, Aug 6, 2002
  6. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    Sorry that you still aren't understanding me. You asked for an explaination to why a church could be Baptist and hold to the Nicene creed. My guess (to try to offer an explaination) is that it would be possible if they took parts of it to be symbolic in nature. In other words, baptism is symbolic of dying and rising with Christ or symbolic or our salvation (the remission of sins) through our faith in Him.

    In response to your other questions: As far as I know my church does not take a stance either way on the creeds. The church does not use them in teaching, but at the same time there is nothing that condemns them. I asked one born and breed Baptist what he thought of the creeds and he answered that it was a good tool to understand the thought of some of the early church, but as it is not in the Bible it should not be leaned upon as such.

    As far as what I personally think...well, I'll reserve commenting on that for now.

    Bro. Adam
     
    #6 Brother Adam, Aug 6, 2002
  7. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    Hey, I just saw that you hit a thousand posts. Good job! [​IMG]
     
    #7 Brother Adam, Aug 6, 2002
  8. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    I really have to get a life! [​IMG]
     
    #8 trying2understand, Aug 6, 2002
  9. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33 New Member

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    "For" means "because of" ex: jump "for" joy

    Baptized "because of" the remission of their sins.
     
    #9 Ps104_33, Aug 6, 2002
  10. Kiffin

    Kiffin New Member

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    Psalms 104_33 stated,

    Amen! Very well said Bro. [​IMG]
     
    #10 Kiffin, Aug 6, 2002
  11. Dualhunter

    Dualhunter New Member

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    Excellent example.
     
    #11 Dualhunter, Aug 6, 2002
  12. Sir Ed

    Sir Ed New Member

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    Nice try guys, but the Nicene Creed wasn't written in English originally.
     
    #12 Sir Ed, Aug 6, 2002
  13. Dualhunter

    Dualhunter New Member

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    And what language was it originally written in? Latin? The same probably applies in whichever language it was just as the same that applies in English for "for", applies for "eis" in Greek.
     
    #13 Dualhunter, Aug 7, 2002
  14. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Again, nice try...

    "eis aphesin ton hamartion"

    "for the remission of sins"

    The preposition "eis" points to a goal that is not yet reached.

    Can you point me to a Bible which translates this as “because of the remission of sins”?

    "For this is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for [eis] the remission of sins.” Matthew 26:28

    So, did Jesus die because of sins that were already forgiven?

    [ August 07, 2002, 09:07 AM: Message edited by: trying2understand ]
     
    #14 trying2understand, Aug 7, 2002
  15. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam New Member

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    ohh goodie. Original languages. I wish I was at home with all my resource material. I actually have a couple of books on the creeds, but I'm at school right now. Look forward to what everyone comes up with.

    Bro. Adam
     
    #15 Brother Adam, Aug 7, 2002
  16. Dualhunter

    Dualhunter New Member

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    Again, nice try...

    "eis aphesin ton hamartion"

    "for the remission of sins"

    The preposition "eis" points to a goal that is not yet reached.

    Can you point me to a Bible which translates this as “because of the remission of sins”?

    "For this is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for [eis] the remission of sins.” Matthew 26:28

    So, did Jesus die because of sins that were already forgiven?    </font>[/QUOTE]I don't think you understand, both "eis" in Greek, and "for" in English have multiple meanings which means that in each language, the meaning of each word is not always the same.

    As already stated it is acceptable to say "Jump for joy", the word "for" is used not "because of" even though that is what is meant.
     
    #16 Dualhunter, Aug 7, 2002
  17. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Oh, I understand, you are picking and choosing again.

    The problem with your system of understanding Scripture is that anyone can make it say whatever they want. And if something can mean anything it doesn't mean anything. Know what I mean?
     
    #17 trying2understand, Aug 7, 2002
  18. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    #18 DHK, Aug 7, 2002
  19. trying2understand

    trying2understand New Member

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    Of course it's picking and choosing. "Harmonize with the rest of Scripture" means harmonize with the verses that you choose and what you choose them to mean. [​IMG]

    Look at the on perpetual disagreements between just Baptists on this board, like "husband of one wife".

    Face it, DHK, anyone can make any verse in Scripture mean multiple things and find multiple verses that they claim support it, while someone else can take the complete opposite position by simply employing the same interpretational methods.

    The countless theologies that have sprouted up, and continue to sprout up, give evidence to the weakness of "sola scriptura". Especially since you can't find a verse that proves "sola scriptura".

    If you can, now would be a nice to to bring it out. [​IMG]
     
    #19 trying2understand, Aug 7, 2002
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

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    #20 DHK, Aug 7, 2002
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